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  1. #11

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    Are you inviting comparative/definitive discussion of patriotism and nationalism?
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  2. #12
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    I can't speak for other people who consider themselves socialists, but I consider socialism and patriotism to be somewhat paradoxical. Socialism is essentially an internationalist belief which I consider the near opposite of patriotism and its national chauvinism tendencies.

    As Marx put it with the idea of 'Proletarian Internationalism'. That is the idea people should act as citizens of the world, by supporting working people in other countries, rather than following their respective national governments with their identity politics; like patriotism infuses for example. Hence the Marxist slogan, "Workers of the world, unite!" ( Or as his Epitaph reads "Workers of all lands, unite!" ).
    Even on the simple issue of semantics, inter means "between". So without nations, there can be no internationalism. This has not been denied within the Marxist camp at all. It lays at the heart of the North Korean concept of Juche, which stresses national independence under Socialism.

    The relationship between Marxism and nationalism is a very long one, it even goes back to its co-founders Marx and Engels.

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Are you inviting comparative/definitive discussion of patriotism and nationalism?
    That wasn't my original intention. I'll be willing to engage alittle further on that topic, although it's such an exhausting topic that really merits its own thread.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That wasn't my original intention. I'll be willing to engage alittle further on that topic, although it's such an exhausting topic that really merits its own thread.
    Okay. What is your intention?
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  4. #14
    Sniffles
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    My original intention was addressing the relationship between socialism and patriotism, or more broadly the Left's understanding of patriotism. It's very unfortunate IMO that so many elements of the Left look down upon patriotism, which in many ways goes against their own political heritage.

    And I say this as a disillusioned Leftist.

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