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View Poll Results: Should civilians be permitted to own guns?

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  • NO! Guns are EVIL and serve no good purpose.

    21 15.67%
  • YES! Guns are USEFUL and are nice to have when you need them.

    79 58.96%
  • Maybe... I wouldn't own one, but I don't mind if you do.

    30 22.39%
  • What's a gun?

    4 2.99%
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Results 71 to 80 of 527

  1. #71
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    Do civilians really need sniper rifles, sub-automatic/automatic machine guns, battle rifles other weapons of callibres that could probably shoot straight through a wall and the like... for self-defense?
    That's the psychology of "no guy with a 9mm is going to mess with me cause I've got a 7.62mm rifle with me!!!".

    The only solution is to get yourself a disarmed M1 Abrahms and then they can waste as much ammo on it's hull as they like
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #72
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    I grew up in rural, Western NY where guns are very much a part of every day life....
    An excellent example of someone who should be trusted with a firearm. Perhaps if all gun owners were required to display responsible behaviour, some skill with the firearm and are taken out for a hunt or something similar BEFORE someone considers them for a gun license then the situation would not be so bad?

    See now I fully support the idea that a responsible citizen who is not about to cause more harm than good SHOULD be allowed to carry a firearm. Sure there's the risk of them being incapacitated, their firearm stolen and used for bad things but that's just life. It involves risk.

    The problem is, as always, identifying the deserving from the irresponsible, ensuring that the irresponsible don't somehow get hold of a gun anyway and in closing cracks created by the ever present corruption that money always leads to.

    Of course the biggest problem is what to do with all the idiots with "shooters" cause they probably recite the same "from my cold dead hands" line too... not that I think that granting their wish would cause too much of a problem in society as a whole....
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    During my concealed carry training, I was explicitly instructed to point the gun at the center of my attacker's body mass, and to continue to fire the weapon until the attack ceased. This is how I was trained, by a licensed trainer who prepared me to be credentialed by the state.

    The point of this is that shooting to wound is a good way to fail.
    I would personally choose shooting to injure, mainly only if the attacker is without a gun himself. This is because

    1. I don't want to end up killing anyone.

    2. I don't want to be sued for killing someone in self defense, as is so common nowadays. Stupid...

    3. I find guns to be very cheap ways of killing people. I have a lot of respect for life, even for someone trying to attack me (though much less for them ). If I'm going to end up killing someone, I'd want it to be more personal. I *think shooting at someone with a gun disassociates you from the person you're shooting at. It's easier to pull a trigger for the resulting instantaneous death than it is to face someone without a gun. I don't have any particular fascination with going toe to toe with someone just to avoid ending their life by the simple pull of a trigger, but it is my belief that it adds more value to life, and doesn't block one from feeling/realizing of the consequences of murder. It's easy to kill your fellow man nowadays because the pull of the trigger is so easy compared to getting your hands dirty...

    With all that said, I'm in full support of gun ownership. Joining the NRA is on my to do list :p .

  4. #74
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Of course the biggest problem is what to do with all the idiots with "shooters" cause they probably recite the same "from my cold dead hands" line too... not that I think that granting their wish would cause too much of a problem in society as a whole....
    Heheheeee!

    Its a catch-22 with no good answer. The problem remains that guns exist and you aren't going to get them out of the hands of the bad guys. I'm a proponent of better education and accident prevention rather than removal.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  5. #75
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    Heheheeee!

    Its a catch-22 with no good answer. The problem remains that guns exist and you aren't going to get them out of the hands of the bad guys. I'm a proponent of better education and accident prevention rather than removal.
    What about those who you really wouldn't trust with a gun even after lobotomising them? Shoot them? Take the toys off them?

    That's the thing isn't it, are we perhaps assuming that everyone has a certain degree of inbuilt sense of responsibility? Is this actually an accurate assumption? Should we not entertain the possibility that some just shouldn't be let anywhere near guns (hence making it a privilege and not a right)?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #76
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    What about those who you really wouldn't trust with a gun even after lobotomising them? Shoot them? Take the toys off them?

    That's the thing isn't it, are we perhaps assuming that everyone has a certain degree of inbuilt sense of responsibility? Is this actually an accurate assumption? Should we not entertain the possibility that some just shouldn't be let anywhere near guns (hence making it a privilege and not a right)?
    I suppose its a very 'American' thing to say that one should be 'innocent until proven guilty'. (IE Allowed to have a gun until they prove they are irresponsible)

    Lots of people forget that there ARE required courses that must be passed before you can get hunting licenses or pistol permits (in most places). There are also background checks that are performed before each sale of a gun, and in many states a required waiting period from the time you request the purchase until you can actually have the gun.

    Will this stop someone who is determined to have a gun? No, they can just buy it off the street. Does it ensure that people who are complete idiots won't end up with a gun? No... but I suppose until their stupidity is shown to result in a crime they can't be punished for it. (Whoever said stupidity isn't a crime probably didn't think it through all the way )

    But... a smart person may not necessarily be more fit to use a gun than an uneducated person. It all comes back to respecting the gun, being taught the proper uses and responsibilities of being a gun owner, and experience.

    Perhaps owning guns should be more like getting a drivers license in that you can't carry one without supervision for X amount of times... so you can be taught the proper way to handle them, safety measures, how they work, etc...

    Of course... this is what hunter education courses do, but if you aren't purchasing a gun to get a hunting license you miss out on that learning opportunity.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I think guns are bad, and I would never own one, but I don't mind if you do.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #78
    Oberon
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    Xander apparently believes that from time to time we drive through the streets shoveling them off of trucks.

  9. #79
    heart on fire
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    Guns are necessary evil.

  10. #80
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    Lots of people forget that there ARE required courses that must be passed before you can get hunting licenses or pistol permits (in most places). There are also background checks that are performed before each sale of a gun, and in many states a required waiting period from the time you request the purchase until you can actually have the gun.
    And in most places that don't have those types of rules, it is normal for people to have firearms, and respect for them/understanding what they can do, is obvious. Example: Vermont. One of two states with completely unrestricted gun laws. If you would like, and are over whatever the federal age is (16?), you may walk into the store, sign the basic paperwork, and buy the entire contents of the store, hide all of it in your coat, and wander around in public. Yet, they have a very low gun crime rate. Why? Because of the culture and mentality of the people living there. Hunting and shooting are normal everyday activities, and there's plenty of land for doing it in. Kids are raised with it, so they don't grow up and just go: "Oh boy, I want to buy a handgun!" "Hey look! I can point it at you! *boom* Oh shit!"

    My point, is....that in places where guns aren't thought of just as "things that kill people", interestingly....they wind up generally not being them.
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

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