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View Poll Results: Should civilians be permitted to own guns?

Voters
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  • NO! Guns are EVIL and serve no good purpose.

    21 15.67%
  • YES! Guns are USEFUL and are nice to have when you need them.

    79 58.96%
  • Maybe... I wouldn't own one, but I don't mind if you do.

    30 22.39%
  • What's a gun?

    4 2.99%
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Results 61 to 70 of 527

  1. #61
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Shoot to wound, sure as a responsible person who acts under either training or coolly under pressure.
    During my concealed carry training, I was explicitly instructed to point the gun at the center of my attacker's body mass, and to continue to fire the weapon until the attack ceased. This is how I was trained, by a licensed trainer who prepared me to be credentialed by the state.

    The point of this is that shooting to wound is a good way to fail.

  2. #62
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    I have a question.

    Why does the gun have to be lethal for the purpose of self-defense. Why exactly are civilians handed out weapons for the purpose of "self-defense" that are designed to kill the target, not to... I dunno paralyze it?

    Do civilians really need sniper rifles, sub-automatic/automatic machine guns, battle rifles other weapons of callibres that could probably shoot straight through a wall and the like... for self-defense?
    A fair question, which is what I had in mind when I wrote:

    until there's widespread availability of non-lethal disabling devices,
    I wonder how they'd navigate the line between mass producing a weapon that could efficiently inflict enough harm to disable any attacker and one that could kill some attackers. I imagine there's some overlap.
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  3. #63
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    On average, guns probably do more harm then good.

    But the technology to make a gun is simple enough to where no one could really halt gun production.

    Places like Canada and Europe have significantly lower per capita gun deaths, last time I checked. How much trouble guns cause in any given society will have a lot to do with culture. America is slowly changing.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    I grew up in rural, Western NY where guns are very much a part of every day life. It is not uncommon for most trucks to have a shotgun or two on a mount inside their cab, and my mother carries a pistol in her purse.

    I got my first BB gun when I was about 5 or 6, started practicing with .22 rifles around 8 or 9 and got my first shotgun for my 16th birthday.

    At each phase of this learning how to be responsible with guns I was taught very important things that some people never get.

    1. Never, EVER assume a gun isn't loaded
    2. Never, EVER point a gun at someone, loaded or not, unless you intend to kill them.
    3. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed straight up or straight at the ground until ready to aim and fire.
    4. ALWAYS know what is behind your target
    5. ALWAYS be SURE of your target

    Being raised around guns, I can tell you within 2 seconds of handing someone a gun whether or not they deserve to be handling one. The idiots who spin around with the gun lobbed over their shoulder pointing it at everyone behind them while they all duck probably needs to be put out of everyones misery.

    My entire family hunts extensively every year, and I have NEVER heard of one of them being accidentally shot at... because everyone they hunt with is RESPONSIBLE and puts safety first.

    Guns are not some new-age, criminal-stopping phenomenon. They have been around for many, many generations and just because people today are not properly informed about guns, they have become AFRAID of them.

    What they fear, they wish to condemn and avoid because they don't know any better.

    This is not to say that a criminal with a weapon is not dangerous. But, having grown up my entire life practicing sharp-shooting and being familiar with guns and having a ton of respect for them, I will have to quote the infamous "you can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands."

    Just because criminals are irresponsible and use guns for violence does NOT give someone the right to take it away from those of us who are responsible and law abiding. This falls into the same genre of BS laws that remove all culpability for your actions and blame it on someone. "Lets sue the tobacco company because I smoked for 30 years, knowing damn well it could cause cancer" or "Lets sue McDonalds because I dumped coffee on myself and got burns because they didn't warn me that it was hot."

    "Lets sue the gun makers because I was shot by one of their guns"

    "Lets take guns away from everyone who has them registered because guns are bad..."

    People must be responsible for their actions. Period. Gun restriction laws are not punishing those who need the punishment. They are punishing the innocent.

    I now live in the city, where crime is all around me. I've seen muggings, robberies, deadly shootings within minutes of my house (if that).

    I keep a dog, a steel bar by my front door, guns and I take Kung Fu. Why? Because the one time in 3 years that I called the cops to come to my apartment building in the middle of the night it took them 50 minutes to arrive. 50. Thats almost a freaking hour.

    Times like that make me happy, knowing that I may be a single mother, but when someone breaks down my front door and tries to hurt my little family, I know exactly how to protect myself. And I will not hesitate to shoot someone who comes with the intention of harming my child or myself. Or my dog.

    Embrace the possibilities.

  5. #65
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    The extra difficulty added by guns over knives and other deadly weapons is the impersonal nature of a trigger press. it's easier to kill without having to be close and personal.

    I've always disliked the idea of guns being used in a violent way, it's just part of who I am. But, to my surprise, I thoroughly enjoyed shooting as a sport. Not at animals (although it doesn't particularly fill me with dread, I'd hunt to eat if I needed to) but at skeet / clay pigeon targets etc. I found I have a keen eye and enjoyed the hand to eye co-ordination and power.

  6. #66
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I think that.. Misty said everything too perfect for me to state my opinion again. No one likes reading things twice.

    I support heavily the development and use of non-lethal weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    During my concealed carry training, I was explicitly instructed to point the gun at the center of my attacker's body mass, and to continue to fire the weapon until the attack ceased. This is how I was trained, by a licensed trainer who prepared me to be credentialed by the state.

    The point of this is that shooting to wound is a good way to fail.
    Center mass ensures a hit if you're not a complete dolt. I agree with it. Trying to aim for an arm or leg is pretty retarded.. You may not (probably will not) stop the target, and the aim needed probably won't match the timeframe you have in that situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    But, to my surprise, I thoroughly enjoyed shooting as a sport.
    Many people enjoy guns for that purpose alone.

    There are varying degrees of how people feel about guns. I think it is closed minded to dispise them entirely based on how the ignorant and vile handle them.

    I can say if I was not in the military, to this day I probably would not have handled and shot a gun. I'm glad I have though. It taught me more about them to handle it and fire it myself than it ever did just seeing them on walls and on TV. The depth of what they're capable of, and how they work, I think can only be known through handling them personally.
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  7. #67
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    How does his defenselessness improve his odds if the other guy does?
    Well that's the thing isn't it, how does merely equipping someone with a gun improve their defences? Surely the whole thing of handling something which is lethal and goes BANG makes the person more nervous than say some less lethal measure or actually requiring some degree of comfort and skill before equipping them.

    See the thing is that it would appear in gross generalisation that the average american is a whole lot more paranoid and "this is mine, just try and take it" than most UK peeps. Oddly though this doesn't cleanly apply to gun owning countries over non gun owning countries so there's other factors getting mixed in there. All I'd conclude is that the current american system could do with improving.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #68
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    All I'd conclude is that the current american system could do with improving.
    We'll take that under advisement. Thank you for your observation.

  9. #69
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If you're going to make a claim like that, shouldn't you have something to back it up? That's not exactly common knowledge. I can see how you might come to that conclusion, intuitively, but that's based on certain premises which may or may not be true.
    As with all things it depends upon the circumstances and the accuracy of the assumptions. I fail to see how statistics would comfort you for long.
    The use of body armor is based on expectation, which is why police officers only use it in certain situations. I don't see this becoming an arms race. If that were the case, we would already see signs of it. The only time I've seen or heard of body armor on a criminal is in a Hollywood movie. Are muggers wearing riot gear in the UK?
    The use of guns is based upon expectation, which is why police officers only use it in certain situations. I don't see this becoming an arms race. If this were the case, we would see signs of it. The only time I've seen or heard of guns being used is in a hollywood movie, or a report from america. Are uk criminals starting to carry guns? Yes.

    In all of history there has been the invention of a weapon to negate the current defences and then a new defence to negate the new weapon. Necessity is the mother of all invention. Whether people prepare enough is another thing entirely.

    Oddly body armour IS used by UK police even though firearms are so rare. As for the criminals, they tend to work more on the principle of hit and run. If they can hit you, steal whatever (sorry whatever, you're obviously too desirable) and get away then that's better than trying to weather the attacks. Most of them tend to run off if the resistance is too great, something a ranged weapon like a firearm negates. In such situations you've created a circumstance where YOU are the aggressor. A tricky thing to handle from both sides.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #70
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    All I'd conclude is that the current american system could do with improving.
    Unfortunately, this is true on many levels.
    Embrace the possibilities.

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