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View Poll Results: Should civilians be permitted to own guns?

Voters
134. You may not vote on this poll
  • NO! Guns are EVIL and serve no good purpose.

    21 15.67%
  • YES! Guns are USEFUL and are nice to have when you need them.

    79 58.96%
  • Maybe... I wouldn't own one, but I don't mind if you do.

    30 22.39%
  • What's a gun?

    4 2.99%
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Results 51 to 60 of 527

  1. #51
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    no... that's that you can't marry the same cousin twice :rolli:
    Dang... wondered why I was chased out..
    stray dog, and you don't need to shoot them, just shoot over thier head and the sound scares them into leaving the sheep alone and going home... common rural practice actually!
    Ahhh... what happens if the dog is a pro?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #52
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Criminals are wild animals. Other people can be wild animals. There are a million reasons why you shouldn't carry a gun. But there are a million situations where a weapon can keep you and your loved ones alive. I understand your points. But I cannot come up with an argument why a responsible, trained civilian should not be allowed to carry.
    I tend to agree here. Some people are wild animals and if you can't cage them you should have a means to protect yourself when the state can't do so adequately.
    I think it is one of those issues where the environment really shapes your viewpoint on the matter. I find it unwise to extrapolate from the circumstances of one environment recommendations for another environment with different culture and dynamics. I can understand why people would oppose guns in a pretty peaceful place where criminals lack easy access to firearms and do not terrorize lawful citizens.

    I personally dislike guns. Even more, the love-affair some people have with them disgusts me to no end. Yet, I have lived in a place where ownership of firearms was illegal for all but a few groups (police, the armed forces). Guess what: the criminals had them in spades, and did not hesitate to use them on defenseless civilians. They will have them regardless of the legality. And many cops are not the sharpest or fastest tools in the box, though tools they may be. So you have a scenario where the cunning and armed are the criminals. Sound right?
    Until I see reasons to believe that civilian ownership of firearms factually makes it easier for criminals to own guns, and until there's widespread availability of non-lethal disabling devices, I agree that ownership should be granted with strict licensing and registration requirements, and very tough laws to punish any infringement. It would be nice if we could use tracking technology to shore up the security.


    How often does your survival rest upon ensuring that the other guy doesn't?
    How does his defenselessness improve his odds if the other guy does?
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  3. #53
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    *psst*
    There are other places in the world... a region was not implicit to the discussion...

    True though. So why make it worse? Stop selling them today.
    The UK can ban whatever they want. They're already far more of a nanny state than the US.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #54
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Dang... wondered why I was chased out..
    sorry Xander- they saw Deliverance and don't want a repeat!

    Ahhh... what happens if the dog is a pro?
    I suppose if that happened it would be "bye bye doggy"... but I've never seen one NOT run!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #55
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Criminals are wild animals. Other people can be wild animals. There are a million reasons why you shouldn't carry a gun. But there are a million situations where a weapon can keep you and your loved ones alive. I understand your points. But I cannot come up with an argument why a responsible, trained civilian should not be allowed to carry.
    So you'd say killing a criminal is the same as killing an animal?

    Whats a responsible citizen, how can you be sure theyre not the one whos gonna go postal?

    My problem is not so much people carrying weapons but that it leads to bad solutions, it fixes no problems, criminals become heavily armed and civilians have to follow in suit, there's no progression towards a safer environment just one that's more on edge.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    As a defensive gun owner, you don't shoot to wound, you don't shoot to kill... you shoot to survive.

    Killing people isn't the point. It's making them stop doing crime on you that is the point. They can be killed or wounded, it's true, or they can see the gun and flee. In any even, the gun itself is not a moral agent.
    Shoot to wound, sure as a responsible person who acts under either training or coolly under pressure.

    But whos to judge exactly who is in the wrong and exactly how much injury can be inflicted? Can you really trust the people around you that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    Because guns are fun to use, as are many other weapons.
    So use them on a firing range or in designated area, I have no issue with guns for sport. I enjoy firing rifles but I don't need to own one and carry it with me to get enjoyment.

    You could kill someone with any number of things. Banning guns is one more step toward making the world a soft, padded, child-lock on, personal-responsibility-free place.
    Do you even see how absurd that argument is?

    I can honestly say in a civilian environment I've never been in a situation where I've needed a gun. They are not that common or easy to obtain over here, most of our criminals do not carry guns so as a responsible citizen I have no need for one. I have full personal responsibility for myself, my life and my actions. If by soft, padded and child-locked you mean reasonably safe to walk around my neighbourhood than sure I feel safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Because people with concealed weapon permits are not going around shooting people. They actually know how to use a gun safely. How many drug dealers bother to get concealed weapon permit? Do you honestly believe they would ever bother with something like that?

    The people to fear don't give a flying fuck what the law says. Gun bans only serve to make law abiding citizens easier targets. Gun bans don't reduce the availability of guns for criminals.

    P.S. I don't own a gun and don't ever plan to own a gun, but I get sick of the illogical arguments made anti-gun people. They simply refuse to acknowledge the difference between law abiding citizens and criminals because that's the only way their argument can make any sense.
    My issue isn't the responsible gun owners, it's identifying the responsible from those who aren't and the fact that the more weapons that are produced and sold the more weapons that criminals will be able to obtain, sure they don't get themselves a gun licence, they take yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Why keep nuclear weapons?

    It's probably a question of you can't uninvent them. They exist now and they are out there. What you going to do about it is the only choice remaining.
    I don't

    And I agree.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Information? What??? We're proving stuff now? Wow I thought this was all smoke and mirrors... Hmm let me extract the relevant part of people's brains a minute....
    If you're going to make a claim like that, shouldn't you have something to back it up? That's not exactly common knowledge. I can see how you might come to that conclusion, intuitively, but that's based on certain premises which may or may not be true.

    As for armour versus guns, it's the oldest race in the book. How do you think you ended up with a gun? Why was armour invented? Why did they think of kevlar etc etc..

    Plus isn't it true that for a while in New York there was a fashion of kevlar puffer jackets?
    The use of body armor is based on expectation, which is why police officers only use it in certain situations. I don't see this becoming an arms race. If that were the case, we would already see signs of it. The only time I've seen or heard of body armor on a criminal is in a Hollywood movie. Are muggers wearing riot gear in the UK?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #57
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    My issue isn't the responsible gun owners, it's identifying the responsible from those who aren't and the fact that the more weapons that are produced and sold the more weapons that criminals will be able to obtain, sure they don't get themselves a gun licence, they take yours.
    That market is already saturated.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #58
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That market is already saturated.
    Yup, and that I believe is the biggest problem. Finding a solution is not an easy thing but producing more weapons doesn't seem to add up to me.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
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    I have a question.
    Your main point is that civilians need to defend themselves, right?

    Why does the gun have to be lethal for the purpose of self-defense. Why exactly are civilians handed out weapons for the purpose of "self-defense" that are designed to kill the target, not to... I dunno paralyze it?

    Do civilians really need sniper rifles, sub-automatic/automatic machine guns, battle rifles other weapons of callibres that could probably shoot straight through a wall and the like... for self-defense?

  10. #60
    almost nekkid scantilyclad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    Do civilians really need sniper rifles, sub-automatic/automatic machine guns, battle rifles other weapons of callibres that could probably shoot straight through a wall and the like... for self-defense?

    i've always asked and wondered this myself.
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