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View Poll Results: Should civilians be permitted to own guns?

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  • NO! Guns are EVIL and serve no good purpose.

    21 15.67%
  • YES! Guns are USEFUL and are nice to have when you need them.

    79 58.96%
  • Maybe... I wouldn't own one, but I don't mind if you do.

    30 22.39%
  • What's a gun?

    4 2.99%
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  1. #371
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    GUNS ARE EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :steam:





















  2. #372
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Care to make more of an effort? I do.

    Lott Study: Concealed Carry Deters Crime


    Nice try. Proven incorrect, however: Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Two more fallacies. You can't generalize what is specific to Switzerland (a very, very small country), especially if it's going against the global trend. And these exceptions can be thoroughly explained thanks to specific cultural and sociological factors.

    --

    Frankly, I think everything has already been said on this subject. It's not even more entertaining, since most guns proponents are repeating the same false arguments ad nauseam.
    Therefore, I'd say the whole subject is not about logic, it's about the rush of adrenaline people have when they hold a gun, and the Freudian symbol that is pertaining to it. Are you at least aware of your own subjectivity, of our own inconscious drives?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #373
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    A Fi-user should say that guns are indeed inherently evil because they are solely designed to kill other human beings. You may not agree with it, but ethically speaking, this argument is quite valid.
    Note use of phrase "my opinion".

    This issue isn't going to be resolved using logic because it *is* ethical/moral/personal etc. What one person thinks is ethical, another doesn't. Neither party is likely to logic the other into changing their ethics. I'm not saying it isn't worth discussing (it is, for interests' sake, as well as mind-broadening for all sides) but coming uo with formulae etc. to try and prove guns are awesome or guns are evil is useless.

    Also, what Jack Flak posted. Switzerland has extremely low gun crime. Israel has low gun crime. Canada (where I live), with about the same rate of gun ownership as the US, has much lower gun crime. It seems fairly clear to me that the number of guns owned isn't even half the story when it comes to gun crime statistics.

    My opinion(s) on guns are informed mostly by my political and philosophical beliefs. I believe I have the absolute right to defend my body and my life, and the lives of those I love, with my own hand, and I object to being made to live in a society where I am required to hand over this responsibility to others (the police). I don't own a handgun because it's illegal, but if it were legal, I would buy one and learn how to use it properly ASAP.

    Another reason I support gun ownership is that I see guns as something of an equalizing force in society. I am a small woman. It doesn't matter how many self defense classes I take, there is always going to be a significant number of men out there who are capable of physically overpowering me. I choose not to live in fear and I would like to be able to choose not to leave it to others to come to my defense, if I am in a threatening situation. A concealed weapon instantly makes me (at least) equal to the drunk thug who wants to throw me onto the subway tracks because I didn't respond to his verbal sexual abuse. His power over me dissolves if I am armed and know how to use my weapon. That, to me = good thing.

    As I said, these are generally philosophical beliefs.

    EDIT:
    You can check any datas gathered in western countries.
    Switzerland is a western country, dude.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  4. #374
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post

    Switzerland is a western country, dude.
    Switzerland and Israel put together make about 15 millions people. The "western world" is about 700-800 millions people.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #375
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  6. #376
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Oh and since this was conveniently ignored

    1. In modern scientific writing "nature" refers to all directly observable phenomena of the "physical" or material universe, and it is contrasted only with any other sort of existence, such as spiritual or supernatural existence. In a scientific text, the unqualified term “nature” normally means the same as “the cosmos” or “the universe”.
    2. Historically, and also in casual speech, “nature” does not include all things, because it excludes the artificial or man-made. For example it generally does not include manufactured objects, and also generally does not include human interaction. In this case, the unqualified term “nature” generally means the same as “wilderness” or “the Natural environment”.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  7. #377
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    Switzerland and Israel put together make about 15 millions people. The "western world" is about 700-800 millions people.
    You can check any datas gathered in western countries.
    You originally specified western countries. You did not specify the "western world". Switzerland is a western country. So is Israel. And Canada. And I think some of those Scandinavian countries have pretty high gun ownership, too.

    Why not deal with the info? Why do you think Switzerland has low gun crime and the US has high gun crime? What are your ethical and/or philosophical reasons for opposing gun ownership?
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  8. #378
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    You originally specified western countries. You did not specify the "western world". Switzerland is a western country. So is Israel. And Canada. And I think some of those Scandinavian countries have pretty high gun ownership, too.
    I said "DataS gathered in Western countrieS". Don't play at this game, you can only lose.

    Why not deal with the info? Why do you think Switzerland has low gun crime and the US has high gun crime?
    Go to Switzerland, and maybe you'll understand...

    No country on earth has been more affected by Calvinist values. It means that in Switzerland, you shouldn't hide anything from the eyes of your neighbours, there is nothing really "private". You can enter the houses of people very easily, even if you don't know them, because this is how every good law-abiding citizens are supposed to be.
    In the same time, it's a bit like "Big Brother land", because everybody is looking at you and will report every moves you make, should you choose to behave out of the strict societal norms.

    It's the cleanest, richest country in Europe. Cleanliness, order and work are national obsessions there.

    What are your ethical and/or philosophical reasons for opposing gun ownership?
    I already said them.
    I think I've been sufficiently exposed to the effects of firearms to know how dangerous they are. Maybe a night spent in an emergency medical service, just after a large gunfight, could vaccinate you. Then maybe, when you'll hold a gun one more time, the feeling of disgust would be too overwhelming compared to the exhilarating sensation of power.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #379
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Hey guise. I wanted to apologize. I didn't mean to step on any toes. Apparently, there's something called the 'gun culture' and people take gun ownership as a value. I didn't mean to step on toes.

    It's an abstract concept that is... abstract. We are mainly debating about abstract concepts, and possibly no body is right. And possibly no body is wrong.

    I love debate. I didn't mean to hurt feelings.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Can you explain your reasoning behind this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me
    Even the act of killing, itself, is neither good nor evil. So guns cannot be.
    Mercy killing is an example of a non-evil homicide. The sole intent is to prevent prolong suffering. Another example would be when a cop shoots a deranged killer to prevent him from harming others.

    Therefore, it is incorrect to assert that guns can only be used to do evil.

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