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View Poll Results: Should civilians be permitted to own guns?

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  • NO! Guns are EVIL and serve no good purpose.

    21 15.67%
  • YES! Guns are USEFUL and are nice to have when you need them.

    79 58.96%
  • Maybe... I wouldn't own one, but I don't mind if you do.

    30 22.39%
  • What's a gun?

    4 2.99%
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  1. #301
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Guns are manufactured (intent) for, among other reasons, to help the police prevent vicious criminals from terrorizing the public. The guns become (result) not just a killing tool, but a deterrent.
    This does not change intent of the original creation...

    Manufacturing after it has been around for X amount of years doesn't change the purpose for which it was ORIGINALLY invented.



    All one can say to my argument is: Well, I don't see it that way.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Choosing a place to start an argument - intent or effect - is just that: a choice. Choosing effect is also idealistic and completely irrational.
    No, what makes your stance idealistic and irrational is that it's not related to what happens in the real world. It is, get this, only concerned with "Ideals." Look the word up, I'm not kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    This does not change intent of the original creation...

    Manufacturing after it has been around for X amount of years doesn't change the purpose for which it was ORIGINALLY invented.
    To better fight battles which were already being waged with ranged instruments of death such as the crossbow, ballista, and catapult.

    All one can say to my argument is: Well, I don't see it that way.
    No, what one can say to your argument has been said quite well in myrad ways in this thread.

  3. #303
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Huh?

    Omnivore... hunter...social creature prone to territorial behaviour...

    Do dogs that fight not have the capacity to kill? Do you think they aim to just disgrace one another? If dominance cannot be achieved then the opposition must be eliminated... it's kind of a basic pattern of progression.
    Dogs probably weren't meant to fight and kill one another... there is a psychological effect there, too. Dominance can be established by little squabbles. Come on, this is an easily seen behavior.

    REMEMBER: PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

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  4. #304
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    But guns are still made to kill/harm. That's what they still do. Their sole purpose.
    But some killing is morally justified and good. The hostage taker who is killing his hostages one by one. Hitler. The paranoid schizophrenic who wants to blow away his innocent family member because he believes they're trying to harm him.

    Do these situations impact on your argument, in your opinion? How can a thing that can be used for good OR evil be ... just evil?

    EDIT: Arguments about what we're 'meant' to do are kind of out of the scope of the specific guns-are-evil discussion going on, no? How can anyone know what anyone, or anything is 'meant' to do?
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  5. #305
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Hm. Well, if we were not intended to do something, and then we do something that we were not intended to do, then this action doesn't fit with our intention (what we were made to do). This is perhaps not good. Apply this to different scenarios, and you would probably end up with varying degrees of "not good" - anywhere from "oh well" to "OMGSOEVIL!!!".
    Precisely what are you intended to do? Are you claiming to have found the meaning of life? Are you actually the number 42 and hence unapproachable in the perfection stakes?

    As for the scale, I believe that's what lies outside of your window.
    I don't ascribe to sentient=can be morally good/evil. I was tossing this bone your way. I DO believe that there is ABSOLUTE good and evil, however.
    It's nice that your feelings provide such clarity and lack of confusion. You should produce a book or something.

    Personally I've yet to find anything black and white thus far and have seen nothing which leads me to think that there will be something so clear cut around the corner.
    Either way, I guess you're saying that a gun is neither good nor evil, am I right?
    I'm saying the terms do not apply to implements. Is a knife evil? It was originally constructed for cutting things... most probably prey but now they're used in surgery. The idea that you cannot see another use for a firearm other than to kill someone is more indicative of a lack of imagination rather than any inherent property of the item in question.

    Does religion, marriage, balloons serve any real purpose which advance society... well you could argue for them but in the end you'd be arguing that your feelings are more valid than someone elses. That is pointless and definitely not logical in nature.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #306
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    No, what makes your stance idealistic and irrational is that it's not related to what happens in the real world. It is, get this, only concerned with "Ideals." Look the word up, I'm not kidding.
    It's an abstract question: are guns good or evil?

    So, I came up with an abstract answer. What is the opposite of abstract? CONCRETE. (omg lol eating concrete/cement!!!)

    Just say you don't like my argument. It's so much easier.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

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  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    It's an abstract question: are guns good or evil?

    So, I came up with an abstract answer. What is the opposite of abstract? CONCRETE. (omg lol eating concrete/cement!!!)

    Just say you don't like my argument. It's so much easier.
    This is not difficult.

    You didn't just state your opinion. You made claims that your opinion was based on logic, and these claims have been refuted.

  8. #308
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    It's an abstract question: are guns good or evil?
    Possibility #3: neither.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  9. #309
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Precisely what are you intended to do? Are you claiming to have found the meaning of life? Are you actually the number 42 and hence unapproachable in the perfection stakes?
    Brown...

    I think we were created for sex, omnivorous eating, certain emotional bonds, and whatever else can be biologically concluded easily.


    Does religion, marriage, balloons serve any real purpose which advance society... well you could argue for them but in the end you'd be arguing that your feelings are more valid than someone elses. That is pointless and definitely not logical in nature.
    Hmm... I do think religion and marriage serve a purpose. We have a brain-need for religion... perhaps even a gene for it. Marriage is a social construct, for raising children. Children add to the population. Increase in population usually means that a society can "live long and prosper".

    Balloons... um... amusement? Adding some sort of weird symbolism to celebrations? WHAT ARE THE NATURE OF BALLOONS!?!??!?

    How are these feelings, hun? Ne, yes. Ti/Te, why not? Fi, not so much.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

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  10. #310
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Dogs probably weren't meant to fight and kill one another... there is a psychological effect there, too. Dominance can be established by little squabbles. Come on, this is an easily seen behavior.

    REMEMBER: PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS.
    So we can go and stop all breaders of Mastiffs because they were bred to kill. Jack russels are probably for the chop... hmm what about those nasty little corgies.... bound to be something evil about them..

    Stop them all!!!

    Oh and were you created for a specific purpose? Did you mother and father sit down one day and think "hmm this doing the chores is a real bind... I know, let's have a child so we can relax!!"? Does this mean you are bound to this original intention? No? Are you special?


    Dominance CAN be established by other means other than eliminating the opposition but CAN is another way of saying 'it is possible'. If 'it is possible' then there are other things which are also possible. One of those things is that no matter how hard you stamp your feet or screw your eyes up the opposition remains and further it is advancing. At some point you CAN reach the awful point where it's them or you.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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