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View Poll Results: Should civilians be permitted to own guns?

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  • NO! Guns are EVIL and serve no good purpose.

    21 15.67%
  • YES! Guns are USEFUL and are nice to have when you need them.

    79 58.96%
  • Maybe... I wouldn't own one, but I don't mind if you do.

    30 22.39%
  • What's a gun?

    4 2.99%
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Results 261 to 270 of 527

  1. #261
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Okay, let's entertain that. How would we find out of murder is natural?
    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Murder is very natural, even under the framework of your argument. I have mechanisms, chemicals, feelings that allow me to take the life of another for either a self-defensive [preservation, a very natural feeling, I would think] or offensive [which is an evil deed] purpose. Now, a weapon like a gun allows me to complete both those tasks, one good and one evil. How can I complete a good deed with something that is inherently evil? If the manner in which I use this tool does decide whether my action is evil or not evil, then how does the relative goodness or evilness of the tool [gun] matter in any way whatsoever? The answer is, it does not. The tool has no moral nature. The way it is employed, does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    How can murder not be natural? Humans are natural, so everything they do is natural.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  2. #262
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    I wonder if everyone using the word 'natural' in this debate has the same definition of it?

    As for guns, I fail to see how inanimate objects can be assigned human values.

    Guns are evil? Are sofas evil? Cars? Cell phones? Damnit, is my bookshelf evil?!
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  3. #263
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    I wonder if everyone using the word 'natural' in this debate has the same definition of it?

    As for guns, I fail to see how inanimate objects can be assigned human values.

    Guns are evil? Are sofas evil? Cars? Cell phones? Damnit, is my bookshelf evil?!
    Good question. I'm using the old, Greek philosophical way of defining an object's nature: the intention behind the creation of the object (it's a bit removed from the original Greek, but it's the way that I understand it best).

    Like I said, some items are inherently good, bad, and neutral - it's the intention behind the creation.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #264
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    How can murder not be natural? Humans are natural, so everything they do is natural.
    Incorrect. Invalid assumption.

    The desire to murder is natural. The act itself is not because of the effect.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #265
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    You seem to have a lot of opinions without much thought. Yes, you're using very simple logic that is akin to that of a comedy show, however, there is not much depth behind it.

    Get your lulz. But in the end, it's all in vain.

    My point was made. I'm not trying to get people on my side. I just wanted to make my point. No one has been able to dismantle my logic yet. Only vague attempts at bad arguing, which makes me laugh...

    Love you guys!
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #266
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Even the act of killing, itself, is neither good nor evil. So guns cannot be.
    Can you explain your reasoning behind this?


    Good call, btw. This is what I'm looking for!
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #267
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Good question. I'm using the old, Greek philosophical way of defining an object's nature: the intention behind the creation of the object (it's a bit removed from the original Greek, but it's the way that I understand it best).

    Like I said, some items are inherently good, bad, and neutral - it's the intention behind the creation.
    That's one of the most silly fluffybunny things I've ever heard.

    (Insult removed - Geoff)
    Last edited by Geoff; 01-06-2009 at 04:27 AM. Reason: Removed insult - retarded
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #268
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Incorrect. Invalid assumption.

    The desire to murder is natural. The act itself is not because of the effect.
    The act is not a result of the desire?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #269
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    FemmeUrbane = philosophy student looking for a reason to value philosophy.

    Answer, there isn't one. Philosophy is like cheese or wine, you consume it and recall it being good but if you just try to sit there and hug it you end up with mould and vinegar.

    There is no argument for guns being evil because it presumes sentience. That much is obvious. As to whether people should have them or not, that's way more complex than any simplistic harking to a philosophical work or two will reveal and no there isn't really an answer to this either...
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #270
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post

    My point was made. I'm not trying to get people on my side. I just wanted to make my point. No one has been able to dismantle my logic yet. Only vague attempts at bad arguing, which makes me laugh...

    Love you guys!
    You cannot make this statement, without having argued this...

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You still haven't related this information to the framework of my argument. Which is really the framework of your argument. You just said, "A bonding chemical increases during sex, increasing the likelihood of the male to exhibit bonding behaviour."

    I can also say "Stressful and dangerous situations trigger an increase in adrenaline, sensory awareness, and reaction time, increasing the ability of the male to fight effectively." Apparently fighting is something I must be designed to do. What will help me win a fight? A gun.

    Now explain to me how I'm wrong.
    And this.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Murder is very natural, even under the framework of your argument. I have mechanisms, chemicals, feelings that allow me to take the life of another for either a self-defensive [preservation, a very natural feeling, I would think] or offensive [which is an evil deed] purpose. Now, a weapon like a gun allows me to complete both those tasks, one good and one evil. How can I complete a good deed with something that is inherently evil? If the manner in which I use this tool does decide whether my action is evil or not evil, then how does the relative goodness or evilness of the tool [gun] matter in any way whatsoever? The answer is, it does not. The tool has no moral nature. The way it is employed, does.
    Also, with your assertion that some things are inherently evil, that is incorrect in the case of guns. The nature/purpose of a gun is to kill. I have shown that killing is not always an evil deed. Thus, the gun cannot be inherently evil if it can be used to for a good deed.



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