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View Poll Results: Should civilians be permitted to own guns?

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134. You may not vote on this poll
  • NO! Guns are EVIL and serve no good purpose.

    21 15.67%
  • YES! Guns are USEFUL and are nice to have when you need them.

    79 58.96%
  • Maybe... I wouldn't own one, but I don't mind if you do.

    30 22.39%
  • What's a gun?

    4 2.99%
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Results 251 to 260 of 527

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Pot. Kettle. Black.
    Hardly. I suck at tons of things, but debate isn't one of them. You've got that covered.

  2. #252
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post

    I could go on... but really... is this necessary? I'm not your mama, and this is not the monogamy thread.
    You still haven't related this information to the framework of my argument. Which is really the framework of your argument. You just said, "A bonding chemical increases during sex, increasing the likelihood of the male to exhibit bonding behaviour."

    I can also say "Stressful and dangerous situations trigger an increase in adrenaline, sensory awareness, and reaction time, increasing the ability of the male to fight effectively." Apparently fighting is something I must be designed to do. What will help me win a fight? A gun.

    Now explain to me how I'm wrong.



  3. #253
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You still haven't related this information to the framework of my argument. Which is really the framework of your argument. You just said, "A bonding chemical increases during sex, increasing the likelihood of the male to exhibit bonding behaviour."

    I can also say "Stressful and dangerous situations trigger an increase in adrenaline, sensory awareness, and reaction time, increasing the ability of the male to fight effectively." Apparently fighting is something I must be designed to do. What will help me win a fight? A gun.

    Now explain to me how I'm wrong.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  4. #254
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You still haven't related this information to the framework of my argument. Which is really the framework of your argument. You just said, "A bonding chemical increases during sex, increasing the likelihood of the male to exhibit bonding behaviour."

    I can also say "Stressful and dangerous situations trigger an increase in adrenaline, sensory awareness, and reaction time, increasing the ability of the male to fight effectively." Apparently fighting is something I must be designed to do. What will help me win a fight? A gun.

    Now explain to me how I'm wrong.
    You're not wrong. But efficiency of a gun doesn't correlate into it's nature.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #255
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    You're not wrong. But efficiency of a gun doesn't correlate into it's nature.
    You're correct. However the nature of the gun cannot be evil, if it can be used as a tool to satisfy a natural, not evil need.



  6. #256
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You're correct. However the nature of the gun cannot be evil, if it can be used as a tool to satisfy a natural, not evil need.
    Okay, let's entertain that. How would we find out of murder is natural?
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #257
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You still haven't related this information to the framework of my argument. Which is really the framework of your argument. You just said, "A bonding chemical increases during sex, increasing the likelihood of the male to exhibit bonding behaviour."

    I can also say "Stressful and dangerous situations trigger an increase in adrenaline, sensory awareness, and reaction time, increasing the ability of the male to fight effectively." Apparently fighting is something I must be designed to do. What will help me win a fight? A gun.

    Now explain to me how I'm wrong.
    would just like to say...that's pretty damn good reasoning to me....because i'm sure you all wanted to know my opinion...haha
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #258
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Even the act of killing, itself, is neither good nor evil. So guns cannot be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This is not necessarily correct. In some situations, the intent is intimidation. In others, it's for sport. Intent varies based on the situation and individuals involved.

    You can't define intent because it's a property of the individual, not the device.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Humans aren't "meant" to be violent? I take it you believe humans have an externally defined purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    I don't happen to buy this argument... YOU weren't meant to kill maybe, but people have been killing for as long as there were people. There isn't a culture in the history of man that hasn't known war in some form or another.

    Also I don't buy your "hand to hand combat is more civilized" argument either. It remains a fact that guns in war lead to less death than pre-gun wars, your rebuttal of death is death isn't very persuasive.
    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    By this logic "PEOPLE" are innately evil. People are the creators of guns. People want to use guns to kill people easier than could otherwise without guns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It really doesn't matter if I create the most perfect argument in the history of the Universe, because you've come to your conclusions using your Feeling function, which doesn't listen to rational arguments.

    Nonetheless, I'll make one for fun.

    You judge good and evil by intent, and I judge it by results. You have no recommended course of action for society to achieve a better state. All your argument consists of is "I don't like guns because they were built to kill."

    But I say that intent is absolutely meaningless if we're concerned about good and evil things happening in the real world, which I am. You're so wrapped up in your ideals, you've forgotten things actually take place.
    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Let's analyze these killers, shall we. Are these "mentally healthy" people? Or are they... unhealthy...? And the first one is still hard, right? Right.

    Less death is still death, hun. Sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Everyone dies exactly once. Net losses from guns: Zero.
    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Can you quote any studies proving that humans naturally feel bad about killing another person?
    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    So all soldiers are mentally unstable and are built "wrong?"
    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    Not the fault of the gun that people die in war. Now you're going from are guns evil to is death evil. Death is not evil. Neither is war. People die. Every living creature goes to war at some point for some reason or another, as conflict is inherent to life.

    The first one is hard because of socialization that tells us it's bad, but once you do it, like most other rules being broken for the first time, you realize society is full of crap.

    Also if you're going to define anyone whose has killed as mentally unhealthy there's no point in discussing this with you. Now you're superimposing your values onto all of us contrary to your claim not to be doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    I'm not sure what you're arguing any more. First you go hand to hand is more civilized. I counter, your more "civilized" method leads to more death than your supposed less "civilized" method. As people will war with or without guns, I'm arguing that less deaths in war is a good thing. You countered death is death...





    I didn't insinuate, you assumed. I said killers. As in anyone who has killed. Cops, soldiers, gang bangers, whoever. Anyone who has killed and isn't on t.v. (where they have to be p.c.) will tell you the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Err am I right in thinking that a "right minded bloke" perspective is needed?

    Blokes... naturally polygamous. Also naturally violent. That's the old instincts. Guns are just the new knives... Least with a few toy guns we can make believe that there's still some place in this cotton wool world where natural aggression has a place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Thinking on the whole melee vs ranged... personally I'd rather be ruled by those cunning enough to develop the ultimate weapon than those strong enough to hit hard.. let's face it the king would almost assuredly have brain damage!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    It has nothing to do with guns. But the analogy is the same. You're arguing that because feelings exist for something, that is the right and correct mode of operation, and anything that goes against that feeling is evil. Which is completely preposterous. I have urges and feelings to have sex with every hot looking female that walks by me. But I don't. I guess that restraint is evil. I want nothing more than to sit by a fire and read great books in the mountains somewhere for the rest of my life, but I don't, because I need a job and would like to have kids someday. I guess that's pretty evil.

    And if you say my examples are ridiculous, that's basically your argument that you're defeating.
    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    Unless you're going to argue that killing is evil then this argument doesn't hold much weight, logically speaking. People will kill, with or without a gun. You're essentially arguing weapons are evil because they are made to kill. I'm arguing people will kill with or without a gun, and there is no "civilized" or "uncivilized" way to kill.






    Just because you didn't know it doesn't mean it isn't common knowledge.

    Just because you are unaware of something or it doesn't fit into your paradigm of how the world should be doesn't make it any less of a fact.

    Talk to anyone who has killed and they will all tell you the same thing, 9 out of 10.
    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You're correct. However the nature of the gun cannot be evil, if it can be used as a tool to satisfy a natural, not evil need.
    :yim_rolling_on_the_
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  9. #259
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Okay, let's entertain that. How would we find out of murder is natural?
    Murder is very natural, even under the framework of your argument. I have mechanisms, chemicals, feelings that allow me to take the life of another for either a self-defensive [preservation, a very natural feeling, I would think] or offensive [which is an evil deed] purpose. Now, a weapon like a gun allows me to complete both those tasks, one good and one evil. How can I complete a good deed with something that is inherently evil? If the manner in which I use this tool does decide whether my action is evil or not evil, then how does the relative goodness or evilness of the tool [gun] matter in any way whatsoever? The answer is, it does not. The tool has no moral nature. The way it is employed, does.



  10. #260
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Okay, let's entertain that. How would we find out of murder is natural?
    How can murder not be natural? Humans are natural, so everything they do is natural.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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