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View Poll Results: Should civilians be permitted to own guns?

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  • NO! Guns are EVIL and serve no good purpose.

    21 15.67%
  • YES! Guns are USEFUL and are nice to have when you need them.

    79 58.96%
  • Maybe... I wouldn't own one, but I don't mind if you do.

    30 22.39%
  • What's a gun?

    4 2.99%
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  1. #181
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    And you say this isn't a contest between idealism and pragmatism?
    Idealism = THINGS SHOULD BE THIS WAY

    Pragmatism = Things are this way

    This is a question about whether guns are good or evil, right? According to my analysis of intention(s), they are...
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #182
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Remorse over killing is cultural. In the past, there has been many societies that celebrate the killing of an enemy.
    I am not familiar with any study with sociological or anthropological study that concludes that remorse over killing (psychologically speaking) is cultural. Would you mind providing proof?
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #183
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Go back to my psychological effects argument.
    I don't happen to buy this argument... YOU weren't meant to kill maybe, but people have been killing for as long as there were people. There isn't a culture in the history of man that hasn't known war in some form or another.

    Also I don't buy your "hand to hand combat is more civilized" argument either. It remains a fact that guns in war lead to less death than pre-gun wars, your rebuttal of death is death isn't very persuasive.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Idealism = THINGS SHOULD BE THIS WAY

    Pragmatism = Things are this way

    This is a question about whether guns are good or evil, right? According to my analysis of intention(s), they are...
    Even in the definitions, idealism is present. Pragmatism is not analysis itself, it's taking courses of action based on realistic results as opposed to abstract notions of "intent."

    And as a pragmatist, I know that when effective weapons are banned, those who manage to acquire them (criminals, or governments) have the upper hand.

    There is no world with no weapons, but in your dreams.

  5. #185
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If intent does not change, if it's a property of the object at its creation, then the intent of almost every weapon manufactured today is to turn a monetary profit.

    As I said before, intent is not a property of the device, it's a property of the individual.
    Invention is to serve a purpose/ meet utility, not to make profit. Profit is a possible side effect.

    Original intent gives light as to whether something is innately good or evil. Somethings are innately good or evil. Some are neutral.

    Just because human A uses the gun for purpose X doesn't change the ORIGINAL INTENT of the gun. A gun is still a gun. The original intent does not change.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #186
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    Invention is to serve a purpose/ meet utility, not to make profit. Profit is a possible side effect.

    Original intent gives light as to whether something is innately good or evil. Somethings are innately good or evil. Some are neutral.

    Just because human A uses the gun for purpose X doesn't change the ORIGINAL INTENT of the gun. A gun is still a gun. The original intent does not change.
    By this logic "PEOPLE" are innately evil. People are the creators of guns. People want to use guns to kill people easier than could otherwise without guns.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  7. #187
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    I don't happen to buy this argument... YOU weren't meant to kill maybe, but people have been killing for as long as there were people. There isn't a culture in the history of man that hasn't known war in some form or another.

    Also I don't buy your "hand to hand combat is more civilized" argument either. It remains a fact that guns in war lead to less death than pre-gun wars, your rebuttal of death is death isn't very persuasive.
    1. I'm not saying that humans don't kill. I'm saying that humans weren't meant to kill - there is a significant effect - and therefore, this effect lends itself to the idea that perhaps humans weren't meant to kill [each other].

    2. I'm not arguing about the number of casualties because it has no place in this argument. It is a side effect, and has no bearing on the original intention, and in fact BOLSTERS my point about the original intention: death.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #188
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    By this logic "PEOPLE" are innately evil. People are the creators of guns. People want to use guns to kill people easier than could otherwise without guns.
    That is an even BIGGER picture, but yes - it seems logical.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    2. I'm not arguing about the number of casualties because it has no place in this argument. It is a side effect, and has no bearing on the original intention, and in fact BOLSTERS my point about the original intention: death.
    Death of individuals is necessary to the success of the human species, so it is possible guns were created around 1,000 years ago by a Christian monk to do the work of God.

    You don't know.

  10. #190
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Even in the definitions, idealism is present. Pragmatism is not analysis itself, it's taking courses of action based on realistic results as opposed to abstract notions of "intent."

    And as a pragmatist, I know that when effective weapons are banned, those who manage to acquire them (criminals, or governments) have the upper hand.

    There is no world with no weapons, but in your dreams.
    So basically, you're saying that you're not going to pay credence to my argument because you don't want to focus on abstract notions such as intent - right?

    That kinda... defeats the purpose of posting on the "Guns are Evil" vs. "Guns are good" thread... don't you think?

    I mean, we are debating about whether they are good or evil...
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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