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View Poll Results: Should civilians be permitted to own guns?

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  • NO! Guns are EVIL and serve no good purpose.

    21 15.67%
  • YES! Guns are USEFUL and are nice to have when you need them.

    79 58.96%
  • Maybe... I wouldn't own one, but I don't mind if you do.

    30 22.39%
  • What's a gun?

    4 2.99%
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  1. #141
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    [QUOTE=Trinity;463630]So the solution is to produce more weapons and arm more people which will result in more weapons ending up in the hands of criminals and the 'good guys' needing more firepower. I understand the need to defend yourself but its not a solution, its part of the problem.[QUOTE]

    One reason for concealed carry is that the gun is out of sight. People carrying pistols in the open make others nervous; and, open carry is legal in many states. I get twitchy when I see someone carrying a pistol in the open (I'm of the opinion that they are making a statement and are not too concerned with self protection.

    You are probably making things sound worse than they really are. There does not appear to be any of the escalation you predict in states where concealed carry is permitted. I am not a real fan of universal gun ownership, and I loathe the NRA, but I have to concede that in most places where concealed carry is legal, violent crime has gone down.

    People who have taken the courses typically required to obtain a concealed carry weapon permit mostly learn about the law and the trouble you can get into even if you are involved in a justified shooting. Given a choice, I would make the courses more rigorous than they are and require more gun safety instruction and demonstrated marksmanship but, as it stands, I don't think your typical CCWP holder is much of a risk to the population at large.

  2. #142
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I happen to like guns quite a bit myself (although I own none at the moment), and I am a zealous supporter of Second Amendment rights. However, many people do not like guns and they avoid them, which is fine. Some people (not just the insane, underage, or felonious, just regular people) shouldn't handle guns. Owning a firearm is an awesome responsibility, and it should be undertaken by the serious.
    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    There is something that seems so wrong to me about an object whose purpose is taking life. The objective behind the gun is death, or at the very least SEVERE pain.

    It doesn't matter how it's used (the situations/scenarios)... the objective/purpose remains the same.

    Think about on a broader scale..and yes, many innocent lives have been lost to guns. But look at all the beneficial wars, which have shaped our world in positive ways..surely with the help of firearms. And yes, war isn't the answer, and many wars were pointless, but they do happen, whether we like it or not. Guns seem to be the most humane way when it comes to hand-tohand-combat..think about what it use to be..spears, swords, and other weapons which resulted in more viscous warfare.

    I do understand where you are both comming from..Guns do have plenty of negative aspects, and in no way am I saying that guns are good. I'm saying that guns contribute to a lot..the good and the bad.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  3. #143
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Guns seem to be the most humane way when it comes to hand-tohand-combat..think about what it use to be..spears, swords, and other weapons which resulted in more viscous warfare.
    From what I understand, hand to hand combat is far more civilized than guns because it is a battle of strength, and the taking of someone's life is much more IMPRESSED on the soul/mind of the "murderer". There is a certain amount of intimacy that I think should remain in this field (war).

    There is something foreign/alien/un-human about sterile shooting - lack of bloody hands, level of physical work, physical contact, etc. If you are to take someone's life, there should be a consequence on the one that lives. To take this away is to make us robotic, no?
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    From what I understand, hand to hand combat is far more civilized than guns because it is a battle of strength, and the taking of someone's life is much more IMPRESSED on the soul/mind of the "murderer". There is a certain amount of intimacy that I think should remain in this field (war).

    There is something foreign/alien/un-human about sterile shooting - lack of bloody hands, level of physical work, physical contact, etc. If you are to take someone's life, there should be a consequence on the one that lives. To take this away is to make us robotic, no?
    Protecting oneself from the really bad people out there, who often happen to be big and strong, is not about civility so much as self-preservation.

    Neither are wars won with honor, but with force and ingenuity.

  5. #145
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    From what I understand, hand to hand combat is far more civilized than guns because it is a battle of strength, and the taking of someone's life is much more IMPRESSED on the soul/mind of the "murderer". There is a certain amount of intimacy that I think should remain in this field (war).

    There is something foreign/alien/un-human about sterile shooting - lack of bloody hands, level of physical work, physical contact, etc. If you are to take someone's life, there should be a consequence on the one that lives. To take this away is to make us robotic, no?
    I see what your saying, and I guess I hand't considered that, I admitt it. I still feel though, the world as a whole, that guns keep a small portion of humanity in harmony..if that makes sense.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    I still feel though, the world as a whole, that guns keep a small portion of humanity in harmony..if that makes sense.
    It does make sense. And I do see what you're saying.

    I cannot help but ask: who will decide which "small portion" is fit to keep a gun? There are too many variables to make this work, in my mind. And also, it has historically failed.

    I doubt our HUMAN abilities to decide who is fit to keep a gun. Way too many variables, and the cost is too great.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Protecting oneself from the really bad people out there, who often happen to be big and strong, is not about civility so much as self-preservation.

    Neither are wars won with honor, but with force and ingenuity.
    Read:

    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    There is something that seems so wrong to me about an object whose purpose is taking life. The objective behind the gun is death, or at the very least SEVERE pain.

    It doesn't matter how it's used (the situations/scenarios)... the objective/purpose remains the same.

    This does not seem like a power that we, as humans, should have. It seems so unnatural to me.



    The idea of keeping guns "out of the wrong hands" seems a bit convoluted, too. So far, this has failed.
    And to go a bit further, lets toy with the history of the pre-gun world... the world of "might makes right" - before Judeo-Christianity became big...
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #148
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    It does make sense. And I do see what you're saying.

    I cannot help but ask: who will decide which "small portion" is fit to keep a gun? There are too many variables to make this work, in my mind. And also, it has historically failed.

    I doubt our HUMAN abilities to decide who is fit to keep a gun. Way too many variables, and the cost is too great.
    Look at it this way..if we didn't have guns, what sort of human torcher, probably more foul and inhumane, would mankind create next? It couldn't be anything like lethal injection, that takes too long. It would have to be something for high paced active warfare. The point is..there is always violence, and there is always going to be war, and there are always going to be people being killed or murdered, even if you take guns away. So what next? What else would replace guns? Whatever it would be, it would generally, have the same effect- a fast and easy way to kill another human being.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Look at it this way..if we didn't have guns, what sort of human torcher, probably more foul and inhumane, would mankind create next? It couldn't be anything like lethal injection, that takes too long. It would have to be something for high paced active warfare. The point is..there is always violence, and there is always going to be war, and there are always going to be people being killed or murdered, even if you take guns away. So what next? What else would replace guns? Whatever it would be, it would generally, have the same effect- a fast and easy way to kill another human being.
    I see what you're saying.

    But the logic of my posts doesn't change. The objective is still death, is it not?
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

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  10. #150
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemmeUrbane View Post
    I see what you're saying.

    But the logic of my posts doesn't change. The objective is still death, is it not?
    Yes. Since the dawn of man has a tiger loomed inside man..the flame that has always been lighten, in which it feels a need to kill anything that does not agree with it, or is different. It's our instict. We have become aware, and have tamed this beast, but it is still there. Without this, the world would come to an end. Charles Darwin proposed the Survival of Fittest, which also goes along with the end result of death. We're not all meant to live on this earth..
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

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