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View Poll Results: Should civilians be permitted to own guns?

Voters
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  • NO! Guns are EVIL and serve no good purpose.

    21 15.67%
  • YES! Guns are USEFUL and are nice to have when you need them.

    79 58.96%
  • Maybe... I wouldn't own one, but I don't mind if you do.

    30 22.39%
  • What's a gun?

    4 2.99%
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Results 111 to 120 of 527

  1. #111
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Come on Victor. At least have your arguments make sense
    I'm not even bothering with this one.

  2. #112
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I'm not even bothering with this one.
    Good.

    Vic, the problem with your argument is that it only tells what did happen, and not what could happen.

    The mob here in America will distribute guns illegally in spite of the gun ban.
    The massacres will continue, and because of the new law, crime rates will go up.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #113
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Guns don't kill. People do.
    What about knives and cyanide?
    we fukin won boys

  4. #114
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Victor, would you like to dance with me?

    [youtube=kxr5Rg-Sotg]YouTube - Audio Bullys/Nancy Sinatra [/youtube]

  5. #115
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    Guns don't kill. People do, but a gun in their hands helps a fuckton or so suppose.
    Sure. A gun is a tool that requires responsibility and proper knowledge on safety procedure. No one says gun ownership laws shouldn't become more selective and strict/discerning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And guns don't kill kids.

    Kids kill kids.
    What? Are you speaking of firearm accidents with kids? If a gun gets into the hand of a kid, someone has made a careless mistake. Just like prescriptions being left out, sharp objects and the list goes on.

  6. #116
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    I suppose its a very 'American' thing to say that one should be 'innocent until proven guilty'. (IE Allowed to have a gun until they prove they are irresponsible)
    Fine an ideal as that would be it would lead to the thinking that people have a right to drive cars for example and should be allowed to drive one until they cause a pile up on a motorway and then they are required to pass a test before being allowed out again.

    Horse, bolting, gate... catch my drift?
    Lots of people forget that there ARE required courses that must be passed before you can get hunting licenses or pistol permits (in most places). There are also background checks that are performed before each sale of a gun, and in many states a required waiting period from the time you request the purchase until you can actually have the gun.
    I'd bow to your superior knowledge of these things, I'm only familiar with the overview of the requirements. However would I be correct in my analysis that you mean you don't require one for a shotgun just a high power hunting rifle or a pistol?

    If so that still seems quite lax to me.
    Will this stop someone who is determined to have a gun? No, they can just buy it off the street. Does it ensure that people who are complete idiots won't end up with a gun? No... but I suppose until their stupidity is shown to result in a crime they can't be punished for it. (Whoever said stupidity isn't a crime probably didn't think it through all the way )
    Well if we were to include the lowest common denominator then nuclear weapons should be available to everyone... after all terrorists are always supposed to be trying to build them or get hold of them aren't they? I mean where does the scale stop?
    But... a smart person may not necessarily be more fit to use a gun than an uneducated person. It all comes back to respecting the gun, being taught the proper uses and responsibilities of being a gun owner, and experience.

    Perhaps owning guns should be more like getting a drivers license in that you can't carry one without supervision for X amount of times... so you can be taught the proper way to handle them, safety measures, how they work, etc...
    Exactly which is why I would think that some degree of proficiency should be shown alongside a responsible attitude over a long period. Kind of like the driving test (not that they are any paragon of virtue and some people still seem to get those vouchers with their breakfast cereal). If the person were required to show that not only can they hit what they aim at (pray and spray I presume is looked down upon outside of hollywood) but also that they exercise due caution and so forth.
    Of course... this is what hunter education courses do, but if you aren't purchasing a gun to get a hunting license you miss out on that learning opportunity.
    I was thinking more mandatory than optional but it seems like a start in the right direction.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #117
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Are people languishing under the impression that it's so much harder for a criminal to obtain a gun in a country where they are not allowed for civilian ownership?

    I think you'd find that in the UK a criminal CAN get hold of a gun it's more the concern that should they do they are the odd one out. It's kind of like painting a target on themselves for every armed police squad in the country. The merest hint of the possibility of firearms being involved will bring our equivalent of swat down on your neck and they probably won't give up until you're no longer holding a gun and free.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #118
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    One thing I'd like to address (hopefully without people getting all hot under the collar) is this premise that civilians should be allowed firearms, nay have a right to own firearms to protect against their government.

    If we assume that any insurrection would be opposed by the current system then I think it's reasonable to assume that the military would side with the current system by and large. Exactly what is even a .50BMG going to do against a tank?

    This seems very outdated as a concept to me and no longer in touch with the current state of play. Terrorists show this most adequately. They don't tend to march up with 20 guys and a few assault weapons... they use explosives. Now aren't those still not permitted for the populace to defend themselves against their governments?

    Looking into military history I think that it can be said with fair confidence that most wars in recent times have displayed more success through the use of explosives, artillery (including barrage from sea), missiles and aircraft. Which of those are you allowed to defend yourself with? None of them.

    So why is it that people have a right to firearms again?

    I mean I agree that a responsible citizen should not have such things taken away from them like naughty children, after all there is no difference (in theory) between a civilian, a police officer, a soldier etc etc. So why allow one but not the other?

    Aha... I have the perfect solution to run alongside the better licensing... like the police and the military, when you are carrying your gun you should be required to wear a high visibility jacket at all times... then we know you're armed and you're being as fair as the police and military.

    Job done
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #119
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well I believe in an armed citizenry. And this notion is not unknown to Europe. Not only Switzerland, but throughout European history this notion held sway. Heck it was from Europe we received this concept.
    I'm glad you brought up Switzerland Peguy. It does have a high rate of gun ownership and yet according to this wiki article there's only about 300 or so deaths related to guns a year.

    I was actually using Switzerland as the basis for the thinking that better education and licensing may solve many of the problems. From that article it is stated that both the Swiss gun licensing requires knowledge of related issues and tests of proficiency and also that there is a required period in the militia. Not that I'm suggesting everyone should spend time in the military if they want a gun, hell for some that'd be a dream come true, but more that with a more responsible approach to firearms it IS possible to have both private ownership of firearms without the associated problems.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #120
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Are people languishing under the impression that it's so much harder for a criminal to obtain a gun in a country where they are not allowed for civilian ownership?
    I think its fair to say if a criminal wants to get their hand on a gun they can almost anywhere the difference is supply/demand, the less guns there are the more expensive and difficult it is to source one, youd have to make a concerted effort to get your hands on one unless you were involved with organised crime as such many wouldn't.

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