User Tag List

View Poll Results: What would you think of a North American Union?

Voters
27. You may not vote on this poll
  • I would LOVE it, bring it on!

    0 0%
  • I would like it.

    1 3.70%
  • I wouldn't know what to think about it.

    3 11.11%
  • I would be disturbed by it.

    7 25.93%
  • I would be deeply disturbed by it.

    16 59.26%
  • I hate polls

    0 0%
123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 73

  1. #1
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default North American Union: How Would You Feel/Think About It?

    During the period of August 20-21, 2007: Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, George W. Bush, and Mexican President Felipe Calderon will meet for the planned third summit of the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP). August 20-21,Montebello, QC. Many people in North America do not even know what the SPP is.

    I have added some information on what is known about any attempts to create a North American Union, both pro and con to encourage disucssion on this issue.

    Views from those who feel uneasy about the upcoming meeting:

    Is the Annexation of Canada Part of Bush's Military Agenda?

    by Prof. Michel Chossudovsky, Global Research, July 18, 2007

    Quote from article: "The ratification of the SPP, which responds to powerful corporate interests, is part of the agenda of the upcoming Montebello Summit, Quebec, on August 20th, thereby paving the way towards the formation of the North American Union (NAU).

    There has been a deafening silence on this process: virtually no media coverage has been provided. No meaningful debate in the House Commons has occurred on a process which affects the future and very existence of Canada as a sovereign nation.

    It is important to understand that this process of territorial integration under the proposed North American Union would embody Canada and Mexico into the US Homeland Security apparatus."


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    An editorial from someone who is concerned about all of this:


    The 'Amero': What of sovereignty?,

    Will Americans trade their dead presidents for Ameros?

    Quote from Article: "The Amero -- replacing the American and Canadian dollars and the Mexican peso -- will be the coin of the realm of the North American Union, a looming NAFTA-like superstate composed of Canada, Mexico and the United States, according to Human Events Online.

    But the Amero is not a new concept. The Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, published "The Case for the Amero" in 1999. The Case for the Amero: The Economics and Politics of a North American Monetary Union


    The three heads of state issued a joint announcement about a "trilateral partnership" after meeting at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, in March 2005. "The Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America" supposedly will lead to the free-market movement of people, capital and trade across the borders.

    Canadians, Mexicans and Americans who value the sovereignty of their respective countries should be concerned.

    The Council on Foreign Relations published a report in May -- "Building a North American Community" -- calling for, among other things, redefining the borders of the three nations, creating a super-regional governance board and the North American Paramilitary Group to ensure that Congress does not interfere with whatever the trilateral union feels like doing...."


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The CFR document that the above article referenced:


    May 2005 report of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), titled “Building a North American Community."

    Quotes from document: "The Task Force’s central recommendation is the establishment by 2010 of a North American economic and security community, the boundaries of which would be defined by a common external tariff and an outer security perimeter. (page xvii)

    Its (the North American Community’s) boundaries will be defined by a common external tariff and an outer security perimeter within which the movement of people, products, and capital will be legal, orderly, and safe. Its goal will be to guarantee a free, secure, just, and prosperous North America. (page 3)

    While each country must retain its right to impose and maintain unique regulations consonant with its national priorities and income level, the three countries should make a concerted effort to encourage regulatory convergence.

    The three leaders highlighted the importance of addressing this issue at their March 2005 summit in Texas. The Security and Prosperity Partnership for North America they signed recognizes the need for a stronger focus on building the economic strength of the continent in addition to ensuring its security. To this end, it emphasizes regulatory issues. Officials in all three countries have formed a series of working groups under designated lead cabinet ministers. These working groups have been ordered to produce an action plan for approval by the leaders within ninety days, by late June 2005, and to report regularly thereafter. (pages 23-24)"

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    THE OFFICIAL Government websites

    **** Here's the official websites for Mexico:

    Mexico's Security and Prosperity Agreement (ASPAN for its acronym in Spanish)

    Alianza Para La Securidad y La Prosperidad de Améica del Norte (ASPAN)

    This site describes itself as: “a permanent, tri-lateral process to create a major integration of North America.”



    *****The United States official Website

    In March 2005 at their summit meeting in Waco, Tex., President Bush, President Fox and Prime Minister Martin issued a joint statement announced the creation of the “Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America” (SPP). “Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America” (SPP)




    *****Canada's official website:

    Canada's SPP


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    More views and information from those who warn of the dangers of a North American Union:

    Vive le Canada.ca: Timeline of the Progress Toward a North American Union

    SPP: What You Don't Know CAN Hurt You! from; Ottowa indymedia

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    Please share any thoughts that you have on this issue. I am very curious what other people think about the SPP and any moves towards a North American Union by the governments of United States, Mexico and Canada.

  2. #2
    Senior Member sdalek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    298

    Default

    I simply look at the problems with the unification of East/West Germany writ large to see that it might not be a good idea. Not enough time to elaborate my ideas this morning but tonight I might have time.

    I am open to change my mind on it, however it needs to be discussed and considerable proof provided on the benefits and how problems are to be addressed.

  3. #3
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sdalek View Post
    I am open to change my mind on it, however it needs to be discussed and considerable proof provided on the benefits and how problems are to be addressed.

    I agree that it needs to be discussed more. The most distrubing thing to me about it how the news isn't talking about it and many people don't even know what the SPP is.

  4. #4
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    1,555

    Default

    Bread and circuses.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  5. #5
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    It sounds like a logistical nightmare to me.
    I mean, it would be good if US businesses had to treat Mexicans like human beings and everybody got national healthcare, but somehow I really don't think it would work that way.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #6
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Partially filled with dread over two more countries having their unique cultures wiped out under mass patriotism.

    I can't see the process going smoothly if at all. Too many jingoists and racists.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #7
    Senior Member raincrow007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    440

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    Bread and circuses.
    Ayup.

  8. #8
    Senior Member sdalek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    298

    Default

    Lessons from East/West Germany unification:

    1. Unequal economies don't mix well. Opportunists from the rich nation will take over the poor nation, stealing more of the wealth and making them poorer than before.

    2. The citizens from the poor country will flee to the rich country leaving little behind, much less anyone to keep things going in the poor country. See East Germany; So many young people and men left East Germany, there are only the elderly and women left behind.

    3. The poorest who are left behind can become the breeding ground for extremism and fascism. East German has had a notable rise in Nazism in their politics, as they take over the vacuum that's been left behind. This leads to the interpretation that the government doesn't care for it's citizens anymore and they are left to fend for themselves.

    4. Years of neglect and lack of funds leaves the economy and ecology a shambles because of lax standards and las enforcement in the poor country leaving hardly anything to invest in and much to clean up.

    Those are just some of the problems I see. Among the things that need to be addressed are bringing the living standards of all participant countries to the EXACT same standard for all BEFORE unification to avoid resource drains caused by people fleeing poor conditions. This means investing in the infrastructure, the citizens, and other areas to ensure that everyone has a competitive edge. Then again, if there were already there, why would they want to unify with another?

    The way I see it, based on my thought above, unification with Canada is no big deal. Both nations are on equal economic and technological levels. Unification with Mexico would be a BIG problem. Investment into Mexico needs to happen first to bring them up to the same level as the US. This would eliminate the man-power drain would occur if the borders were just thrown open.

  9. #9
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sdalek View Post
    The way I see it, based on my thought above, unification with Canada is no big deal. Both nations are on equal economic and technological levels. Unification with Mexico would be a BIG problem. Investment into Mexico needs to happen first to bring them up to the same level as the US. This would eliminate the man-power drain would occur if the borders were just thrown open.
    Thank you for offering some real discussion of the issue. That makes you a fairly rare person in my experience. So many times when an issue has not been talked about much in the media, people won't discuss that issue. You bring up excellent points on these issues.

    I wonder how Canadians would view the merging with United States? Somehow I think many of them would find the idea as distressing as many in the United States find the idea of merging with Mexico but maybe the reasons would be different.

  10. #10
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    It sounds like a logistical nightmare to me.
    I mean, it would be good if US businesses had to treat Mexicans like human beings and everybody got national healthcare, but somehow I really don't think it would work that way.
    Yeah, somehow I don't think it will turn out that way either. I would love to be proved wrong on that however!

Similar Threads

  1. How would you feel after a day in these jobs? Part I, simple jobs
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 04-04-2013, 12:19 AM
  2. How would you feel after a day in these jobs? Part II, skilled labor
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 04-04-2013, 12:04 AM
  3. How would you feel in this kind of a environment?
    By Virtual ghost in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 12-07-2008, 12:15 AM
  4. How would you feel if your child one day dies for his/her country?
    By Virtual ghost in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 11-15-2008, 04:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO