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View Poll Results: What would you think of a North American Union?

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  • I would LOVE it, bring it on!

    0 0%
  • I would like it.

    1 3.70%
  • I wouldn't know what to think about it.

    3 11.11%
  • I would be disturbed by it.

    7 25.93%
  • I would be deeply disturbed by it.

    16 59.26%
  • I hate polls

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  1. #41
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I wonder how Canadians would view the merging with United States? Somehow I think many of them would find the idea as distressing as many in the United States find the idea of merging with Mexico but maybe the reasons would be different.
    Speaking as a Canadian....


    Canada physically looks like the U.S. Canadians are nothing like Americans, though. Culturally. I didn't notice it until a prof spent a lecture on it... it's really true.

    These are all generalizations, of course. Please don't think I speak on behalf of All Canadians, or that I think All Americans think this way. Generalizations!

    *We are multicultural. Truly. I'll bet most Americans really cannot fathom this. They might think they can, but if they have not spent more than a few months outside their country in a multicultural country, then I highly doubt it. Absolutely no offense intended, it's just true.
    This would be lost.
    *Americans feel a need to be patriotic: the government often sets this up to get the people to follow them. If you don't agree with the government's agenda, you must not be patriotic. These are not necessarily related, but many Americans think so. Canadians don't feel patriotic--we're proud to be Canadian, but it's totally different.
    *You government basically wants our water. (We own something ridiculous like 25% of the world's freshwater). We also have ridiculous amounts of energy resources that your government already manipulates out of us. We aren't politically strong enough to say no, it's bullied out of us.
    *this would pretty much be an attempt to take over the world... and I highly doubt a "live and let live" mentality is going to work. People are going to get screwed, and WWIII would happen, is my guess. Which means nukes, of course.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #42
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    The purpose I could see it serving is to educate Americans about Canadian's views of the United States. Feedback from others, if constructive, is usually very helpful for one to see how they really are, even if they don't show it initially.

    I think the typical United States person will understand how further merging with Mexcio might not benefit them and feel very concerned about it but won't understand how a Canadian would not welcome merging with the United States. There is a tunnel vision about that sort of thing. jmo.
    I'm quite willing to give blunt views on the U.S.!


    But I'm no politics expert so please be nice.

    Speaking in generalizations, and also about the "average" American as opposed to the enlightened American. Which means negative viewpoints. I have plenty of American friends that I respect, admire, and like. So please don't think I'm talking about you. I'm talking about the typical canadian response to the typical american.
    ANd I don't think the Americans on this board represent hte typical american. I'm just letting you glimpse the general Canadian perspective on Americans.

    *Americans are blinded by their worldview. You try to talk to them--they totally don't get it. They won't even say "your view is valid, although different than mine". We apparently just don't understand what's right. Except, um, the whole world is on one side and Americans are on the other.

    *your government works in the interests of the economy as opposed to any sort of human rights or interests of even its own people. Don't believe me? Read Chomsky. An American.

    *americans are generally egocentric and can't fathom why people would want to live a lifestyle different than theirs. they self-impose their lifestyle on others. (reference the government... the many wars where they go in to "rescue the people" who really don't want rescuing or the American way... they just make messes)
    I heard a stat that 50% of your politicians have never even vacationed outside the U.S.! Never experiencing another person's way of life is a bad thing when you're trying to understand them, which politicians should be doing.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #43
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    The US/Canadian border is the largest arbitrary border in the world and shows how artificial it is by the fact that the vast majority of the population north of the border live within 100 miles of it.

    Personally, though, I don't trust the Canadians and I wouldn't want them involved in our politics. Although they are closer to us than most of the rest of the world, the fact remains that they are socialists, and I don't want to see them influencing the power structure here because it would probably cause a war. They wouldn't like it because they aren't sure about us gun-toting conservative loonies down here, not to mention they love to insult us at every opportunity while trade between the two countries is huge, so they depend on us in spite of disliking us.

    Mexico is a bad idea, though. Canada would be endurable, but Mexico's difference would basically take everything from Mexico. They might as well have become part of the country after one of the times we totally defeated them in the past. They are so economically out-of-step with us that it would create the most massive two-way migration the world has ever seen, with Mexicans moving north for money and Americans moving south for cheap land/nice climates. Mexico would become a massive manufacturing center, moreso than it is now, while the US would increasingly stratify, and the most technical (indoor) work would all move north.

    Land value would equalize at both borders, too, which would be bad for those where I am, good for Mexico, bad for Canadians just north of the border (except their values are on paper, like ours, so they would have an imaginary loss), and good for those within a few hundred miles south of it.

    The upshot is that, really, vertical lines would have made more sense in America (the continent) than horizontal ones, due to the way migration occurred, especially in the US and Canada, but not as much in Mexico.
    heheh....


    1. the border is not arbitrary. ask one single canadian if they are like americans... there is a difference. everyone but america seems to understand this.
    (it's warmer the more southern you are!)
    2. this is why canadians don't post on boards like this... i'm just gonna get everyone pissed and make enemies. but oh well.
    every canadian/european who reads the 2nd bolded part just can look at each other and nod their head and smirk a "knowing smile"... we all understand that this is why americans don't get why they don't get it!" not specifically this subject, but your worldview. you can tell the americans who have never truly experienced another culture. (and a sightseeing vacation does not count as experiencing another culture)
    The mentality block is just near-impossible to get through... and it's not even your fault. it's just your environment... the poor americans who are able to break through this and have to live with you guys, though... man, do i feel for them.


    i should probably reiterate that america has great foundational ideals and i have many american friends which i love. 'cause i know i just pissed off a whole lot of people by typing these posts.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #44
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    heheh....
    every canadian/european who reads the 2nd bolded part just can look at each other and nod their head... we all understand that this is why americans don't get why they don't get it!"
    Well, I don't get it. Are Canadians socialists? If they are, are you saying that Americans have an unreasonable bias against socialism? If they aren't, are you saying that we are overreacting to certain policies and misidentifying them as socialism? I honestly don't know anything about Canada except that they sometimes speak French, are north of us geographically, were British colonies longer than we were, have a prime minister, have a city called London in the province of Ontario, and have a red maple leaf as their national symbol. Lastly, I know they have something called a "Quebec".

  5. #45
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    As much as it would make it easier to see you crazies down south I have to reitterate the disapproval of your version of politics. Ain't a fan of our country's politics, but we end up laughing harder or shaking our heads more at yourse. Sorry boys and girls, but the people you elect scare us.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  6. #46
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    1. the border is not arbitrary. ask one single canadian if they are like americans... there is a difference. everyone but america seems to understand this.
    Yesssss.... so it would seem. I stayed away from that comment because there is no nice way to say it.... and maybe 10-15 years ago I would of agreed... but at this point and after travelling... oh hell no.


    athenian200:

    In regards to what is the difference... it's hard to explain. But I think this really covers it:


    we all understand that this is why americans don't get why they don't get it!" not specifically this subject, but your worldview. you can tell the americans who have never truly experienced another culture.


    From my POV, America feels... how do you say... culturally naive. And it has nothing to do with how well travelled - it's a sort of insulation. I saw this happen in my own family, from someone who has travelled more than I probably ever will - who married a European... but once being in the states... it's like the center of the world. Nothing else matters but "me" and "us".

  7. #47
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    ...
    Agree pretty much with most of this. A merge would deeply bother me, for the same reasons that I will never move to the states (unless circumstances dictate, of course).
    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    As much as it would make it easier to see you crazies down south I have to reitterate the disapproval of your version of politics. Ain't a fan of our country's politics, but we end up laughing harder or shaking our heads more at yourse. Sorry boys and girls, but the people you elect scare us.
    This is my main reason. The idea of having politics so blatantly influenced by religion deeply disturbs me.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    heheh....


    1. the border is not arbitrary. ask one single canadian if they are like americans... there is a difference. everyone but america seems to understand this.
    (it's warmer the more southern you are!)
    2. this is why canadians don't post on boards like this... i'm just gonna get everyone pissed and make enemies. but oh well.
    every canadian/european who reads the 2nd bolded part just can look at each other and nod their head and smirk a "knowing smile"... we all understand that this is why americans don't get why they don't get it!" not specifically this subject, but your worldview. you can tell the americans who have never truly experienced another culture. (and a sightseeing vacation does not count as experiencing another culture)
    The mentality block is just near-impossible to get through... and it's not even your fault. it's just your environment... the poor americans who are able to break through this and have to live with you guys, though... man, do i feel for them.


    i should probably reiterate that america has great foundational ideals and i have many american friends which i love. 'cause i know i just pissed off a whole lot of people by typing these posts.
    I am glad that you decided to post and I think you added a lot of perspective to the conversation.

    I think people need to get past the labels of socialism and capitalism and get back to being human beings outside of all the isms and thinking about what is best for human beings and what is the most humane way to live. I know we here in the USA do not live in a very humane society at all. I read people who are in other countries who complain about a lack of humanity in their cultures too. Not the same vein as the USA, each place seems to have its own flavor of inhumanity.

  9. #49
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Yesssss.... so it would seem. I stayed away from that comment because there is no nice way to say it.... and maybe 10-15 years ago I would of agreed... but at this point and after travelling... oh hell no.


    athenian200:

    In regards to what is the difference... it's hard to explain. But I think this really covers it:


    we all understand that this is why americans don't get why they don't get it!" not specifically this subject, but your worldview. you can tell the americans who have never truly experienced another culture.


    From my POV, America feels... how do you say... culturally naive. And it has nothing to do with how well travelled - it's a sort of insulation. I saw this happen in my own family, from someone who has travelled more than I probably ever will - who married a European... but once being in the states... it's like the center of the world. Nothing else matters but "me" and "us".
    I'll let the first part fly away... I'm 21... It's probably still over my head. I know I'm a little bit of an idealist.

    And I also thought I'd mention that the mentality block is completely unrelated to one's intelligence, ability to think rationally, ability to understand what someone is communicating... it's just... you can't explain it. You have to experience it.

    For any Americans who genuinely want to get it but don't have the spare months/cash to experience a new culture? Try reading Failed States by Chomsky to get your mind on the right track. You won't get it yet, but it will open your eyes to what we're looking at when we see you a little bit more.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  10. #50
    only bites when provoked
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    1. the border is not arbitrary. ask one single canadian if they are like americans... there is a difference. everyone but america seems to understand this.
    (it's warmer the more southern you are!)
    This is baseless. Canadians are more like those south of them than they are those east or west of them within their own country, just like we are in the US (I have nothing in common with our east-coast overlords, for instance). They like to claim they're quite different, but in reality there's very little difference. Governmental, mainly. There is a distinct mentality against Americans. In the backwater place I lived, some of the people I met had absolutely never met an American in their lives. We're talking middle-aged (and older) people that had all these preconceived notions about us without having ever met one of us. They think we're all gun-toting neanderthals, too.

    The border is certainly arbitrary, too. Do you even know how it came about? (The western portion, the other part is somewhat, sort-of, sensible.)

    I would never want the east half of your country attached to us. I hate that we're attached to our eastern half, but can't do much about it.

    2. this is why canadians don't post on boards like this... i'm just gonna get everyone pissed and make enemies. but oh well.
    every canadian/european who reads the 2nd bolded part just can look at each other and nod their head and smirk a "knowing smile"... we all understand that this is why americans don't get why they don't get it!" not specifically this subject, but your worldview. you can tell the americans who have never truly experienced another culture. (and a sightseeing vacation does not count as experiencing another culture)
    The mentality block is just near-impossible to get through... and it's not even your fault. it's just your environment... the poor americans who are able to break through this and have to live with you guys, though... man, do i feel for them.
    I lived in Canada for a few months (in addition to a couple months of wandering, in all I've spent more of my life in BC than I've spent in Wyoming, and I lived in WY for a short time), and not only could people not tell I was a foreigner, but they genuinely didn't believe me without proof. I kid you not. Then again, I attract Canadians here, so there might be something weird about me, maybe I seem more clued-in than an average US citizen, but maybe it's just that we're misunderstood and hated by people that do not understand us. We're very different from the way your media claims we are.

    i should probably reiterate that america has great foundational ideals and i have many american friends which i love. 'cause i know i just pissed off a whole lot of people by typing these posts.
    Yeah, but we've gone off in some horrible directions. We've gone the wrong way quite a few times, and we're living with it now.
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    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

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