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  1. #211
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    If I understand this things the real problems will be when all those fat people grow old. Since it will take a lot of resources to keep them more or less healthy, In this case productivity of an entire society could drop by very large degree.
    I missed this part initially. How do you suspect this will happen? Do you mean regardless of "economic system?" (Here I am using a really vague and abused word)
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  2. #212
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    I missed this part initially. How do you suspect this will happen? Do you mean regardless of "economic system?" (Here I am using a really vague and abused word)
    I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but he is right. Once all these people hit their 50s and 60s, their obesity will result in a LOT more healthcare required due to the increased stress on their bodies. Hence....you either have an overtaxed healthcare system, even higher insurance premiums to make up for these people, or a lot of people without healthcare.
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  3. #213
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
    I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but he is right. Once all these people hit their 50s and 60s, their obesity will result in a LOT more healthcare required due to the increased stress on their bodies. Hence....you either have an overtaxed healthcare system, even higher insurance premiums to make up for these people, or a lot of people without healthcare.
    Well fortunately, obese people have gotten on the "I've got Rights!" bandwagon with every other group of people. So we could hardly tell them how to eat.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  4. #214
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I think you're deliberately missing the point. It was a metaphor, use your iNtuition, if you have any; don't be so literal.

    And please, don't get stuck into patriotic self defence. We're not here to put America or Europe on trial.
    You also missed the metaphor. Going hungry meant little about food. what I meant was that europe is more socialized. Housing, health insurance, higher learning, and ok food as well are available to all. A consequence is that taxes can be high, but the state provides useful services in return. Tuition is basically free at universities. I basically paid 50 bucks in total for a fast and accurate knee operation. Homelessness in germanys poor capital city is not a problem like in comparably sized american cities.

    As this is indeed nto a thread to put either continet on trial, the social systems definitely hold back the financial systems, as they are costly to operate. America is the worlds largest economy, but i think european nations help hold up their citizens more humanely.

  5. #215
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Well fortunately, obese people have gotten on the "I've got Rights!" bandwagon with every other group of people. So we could hardly tell them how to eat.
    Yup. I personally don't really care about them being fat, as long as they don't care about paying more for their health insurance because of them being a greater liability than me, just like smokers and the like do.
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  6. #216
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    Going hungry meant little about food. what I meant was that europe is more socialized.
    That's exactly how I understood it.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #217
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    You also missed the metaphor. Going hungry meant little about food. what I meant was that europe is more socialized. Housing, health insurance, higher learning, and ok food as well are available to all. A consequence is that taxes can be high, but the state provides useful services in return. Tuition is basically free at universities. I basically paid 50 bucks in total for a fast and accurate knee operation. Homelessness in germanys poor capital city is not a problem like in comparably sized american cities.

    As this is indeed nto a thread to put either continet on trial, the social systems definitely hold back the financial systems, as they are costly to operate. America is the worlds largest economy, but i think european nations help hold up their citizens more humanely.
    (I'm commenting on the bolded part mostly.) Overall taxes in Europe are not much different from taxes in the US. The difference is that the US spends a lot of its tax dollars on the military and uses it to guard and police the world (including Europe). The US does spend a signficant amount of tax dollars on benefiting people, but it is non-Americans getting the most of the benefit of our military. Europeans as a result need to spend less money on their military which means they can afford to give their citizens even greater benefits.

    In other words Europeans are getting two types of benefits Americans are not getting. 1) Free military protection. 2) Extra social services which can be afforded because of savings on military spending.
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  8. #218
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I am curious, how would people from the US look at this.

    Here in Croatia you can get a bachelor degree on a state universities for about
    1000-1500$ dollars and master degree is totally free. But the level of education is not that low. You just have to have a place to sleep and something to eat.

  9. #219
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Come on, the free education thing is nothing new. Most of us have heard about it. You probably even know an American's typical response.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  10. #220
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
    As for the "banning guns" issue. It's kind of irrelevant, we have 270 million of them in private hands in this country, "banning" them, wouldn't do much, as I can assure you that at least 75% of gun owners would not give them up if the law changed.
    Surely it's a question of values.

    You hate losers and love guns, while we love losers and ban guns.

    We gained our independence without killing anyone, while you waged an eight year war of treachery against the Crown.

    And we united a whole continent without killing anyone, while you waged one of the worst civil wars on record.

    You are revolutionaries who waged a patricidal war, and like all revolutionaries you ate your children in the civil war.

    But the first casualty of revolution is irony.

    You want to cast us in your own image and you are deaf to irony.

    That's why we have to shout at you.

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