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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Religious rules aren't always moral.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That doesn't make any sense.
    Yet this does ?


  2. #62
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post

    I mean seriously, out of all the issues one could possibly preoccupy themselves with, this is the one you choose? Out of all the issues related to human rights, this is the major one?
    Wait, how do YOU know what other human rights issues any of these people are fighting to change?

    It's a bit presumptious to assume that the only issue these people you have "debated with" is gay marriage.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

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  3. #63
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    I don't want to seem provocative, but I really don't see why straight people should even get a say as to whether gay people can marry or not.
    um, because all mentally competent adults have the capacity and responsibility to determine issues on the basis of individual rights and utilitarian consequences. I support gay marriage, but you can't just let any identity-group be the sole arbiter of which rights they possess-my response covers all statements similar to that which you made.

  4. #64
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    Gay marriage is a "big deal", bigger than it really should be, because conservatives are worried about the family structure becoming more uprooted and alienated than it already is. I know that might not make sense when you realize gay marriage is focused on..... Gays, not heterosexuals, but one gathers they don't want Bisexual men and closet homosexuals (the prevalence of both is relatively UNKNOWN....) to have the added incentive of "coming out" and having even more dads forgo their role as a resource provider and presence of stability for a family unit. This is also why, while something like 75 % of the Hispanic community in Florida voted for Obama, they turned around and voted in proposition 2 - the Florida marriage amendment, making marriage between ONE man and ONE woman (also illegalizing polygamy, incidentally). People are really tired of broken families.

    Other than that, there's no real logical reason to be against gay marriage.

  5. #65
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    I've only looked at this thread a couple of times. And yet, even though there are a full 7 pages of posts, I still find the same old pattern. 1. "Our struggles are like that of the civil rights movement" 2. "We hate Christians, it's time to bash Christians" 3. "We hate such and such religion practiced by Western Europeans, time to bash it."

    On the other hand, I see very few (possible NONE) instances of the other side bashing gays...

  6. #66
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I've only looked at this thread a couple of times. And yet, even though there are a full 7 pages of posts, I still find the same old pattern. 1. "Our struggles are like that of the civil rights movement" 2. "We hate Christians, it's time to bash Christians" 3. "We hate such and such religion practiced by Western Europeans, time to bash it."

    On the other hand, I see very few (possible NONE) instances of the other side bashing gays...
    I am a Christian myself, so that's not my angle here. But I don't see the problem with comparing the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement. Analogies aren't meant to be exact 1:1, "everything about these two things is exactly the same" comparisons. There are parallels.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    There are parallels.
    More like skew lines.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I've only looked at this thread a couple of times. And yet, even though there are a full 7 pages of posts, I still find the same old pattern. 1. "Our struggles are like that of the civil rights movement"
    Because it highlights the fatal inconsistency in your position. Unless you can prove that the two differ in relevant ways, you cannot simply nag others to refrain from using the argument.

  9. #69
    Oberon
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    I think it silly to be outraged at the claim that the disallowance of gay marriage is discriminatory.

    OF COURSE it is discriminatory. There are lots of variations on marriage that are disallowed by law. As a society we discriminate against marriage between adults and children, we discriminate against marriage involving more than two people, we discriminate against marriage between siblings... all of this is discriminatory, yes. The point I'm making, of course, is that not all discrimination is negative.

    So the question before us is not whether disallowance of gay marriage is discriminatory; that's a given. The question, rather, is should it be allowed.

    And it would appear that the jury of public opinion is still out on that point.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    So the question before us is not whether disallowance of gay marriage is discriminatory; that's a given. The question, rather, is should it be allowed.

    And it would appear that the jury of public opinion is still out on that point.
    Public opinion isn't the grand arbitrator of values. It can be challenged.

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