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  1. #121
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Being infertile is unfortunate, but it can't stop a couple from trying to conceive, that is infertiles can, and often are, open to reproduction through the natural means which is sex between a man and a woman. And for people who don't want kids-EVER-, I'd say no. Marriage is a promise, reducing it to what you're talking about is like putting icing on a pile of flour and calling it a cake. You want the status and benefits without meeting the real heart of the matter.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Now wait a minute, hold the phone. You're saying marriage only counts if you're going to bear live young? So by that definition, even some heterosexuals should not be allowed to marry?

  3. #123
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    I believe you should be open to reproduction at some point--not that a couple should try to conceive immediately after being married. And that's right, in certain circumstances I don't think heterosexuals should be married. That's why my issue isn't specifically targeted against homosexuals, it's not about oppressing them or refusing minorities their rights. If all marriage is to you folks is a warm feeling of love, sex only for pleasure, security, status, and cohabitation, maybe that's where we disagree.

  4. #124
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    To me though, openness to natural procreation is an essential aspect of marriage, as it is a great element of total self-giving.
    It sounds like you're simplifying marriage into a biological function.

    Sexual reproduction predates marriage. Marriage is a function of social breeding; a cultural artifact. It's only as relevant as our social mores obligate it.

    Reproduction is an instinctual desire to perpetuate our species. A survival initiative as to avoid the elimination of our genetic material.

    The terms are unrelated.

    Your connection is spurious.

  5. #125
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    I didn't say premarital or extramarital reproduction is impossible, I mean that openness to reproduction, whether immediately or at some point in the future, is an essential part of marriage. PART. Like it or not, I've been truthful in my convictions, and instead of making incredulous remarks of how shocking my idea seems to be, maybe you should appreciate that my theory isn't anything along the lines of "gays are lesser humans" that you would find elsewhere in oppositions to gay marriage. Am I acting shocked or disgusted by your beliefs? No, I'm giving you my opinion-this to me is why the issue is a big deal.

  6. #126
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I didn't say premarital or extramarital reproduction is impossible, I mean that openness to reproduction, whether immediately or at some point in the future, is an essential part of marriage. PART. Like it or not, I've been truthful in my convictions, and instead of making incredulous remarks of how shocking my idea seems to be, maybe you should appreciate that my theory isn't anything along the lines of "gays are lesser humans" that you would find elsewhere in oppositions to gay marriage. Am I acting shocked or disgusted by your beliefs? No, I'm giving you my opinion-this to me is why the issue is a big deal.
    I've highlighted the points that are irrelevant to my statement -- we simply haven't spoken to them, Take Five.

    There's no cause for defense. I haven't attacked you.

    I've simply pointed out a logical fallacy in your reasoning.
    You did not address it with your response.

  7. #127
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    That response wasn't just directed to you. "You" can also be plural, so just relax. And some of that does pertain to you, as I emphasized that reproduction is PART of marriage-notice the emphasis on part. And if marriage is a function of social breeding, then it should try to serve at least that purpose, should it not? Also if you want to take that route that you did, I suppose you want legalized polygamy and polygyny? So I disagree with you because I don't see a logical fallacy.

  8. #128
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    Also if you want to take that route that you did, I suppose you want legalized polygamy and polygyny? So I disagree with you because I don't see a logical fallacy.
    Lol.

    Alright. We'll leave it here.

    You pollute your stance by attacking sentiments that I haven't expressed. I don't think you know what you're speaking to at this point...

    Best of luck sorting this out.

  9. #129
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    It might have benefited you to have read the thread before posting Take Five. The slippery slope fallacies and faulty procreation arguments have been done to death already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  10. #130
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    I'm not accusing you or saying you're wrong if you favor polyamy/polygyny, it seems you are kinda defensive here, and quite frankly rather belittling. It's just that the depiction you give to me seems that it would include those, I mean if it's not just about reproduction, they why would you automatically exclude the option? I've clearly painted my picture of marriage, and I'd like to know your(plural) pictures of it. There's no need to make belittling comments just because I made a retort in defense of my position, which seems here clearly to be the dissenting opinion. Believe me, I'm not some radical Christian who hates everything that isn't straight and white, I just hold my convictions strongly because I've put much thought into them. I've started my discussion in earnest, your part asked the question, and I gave my response. To me it's a matter similar to men not being allowed into a women's restroom, or vice versa.

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