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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Well, you can't blame them. Even Barney Frank says we need a heavy dose of "changenism". People just assume it's a good thing...
    People are just fucking retarded. They think we've been operating under a free market, so they blame the free market. "Capitalism has failed us", they say. Bullshit.

    Hearing people say that bailing out companies is the "practical thing to do" is infuriating. We've been through this before, it was called the Great Depression. It lasted for over a decade because we did what was "practical" back then, too. People pretending to be intelligent (Keynesian douchebags) will never stop blaming the market.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #22
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    I think the bailout should've been a great oppurtunity, and I think subsidizing the U.S auto industry is actually a great idea. Along with: forcing all the CEOs to quit, forcing the companies to put almost all new people in serious leadership positions, and thier new CEO choices could have to also be approved by the energy and commerce secretaries, or congress, or something like that. And we could also have really high MPG standards as a condition for recieving money.

    The only problem is, people pretending to be intelligent will keep mindlessly chanting "government is the problem" without realizing the incredible irony of that false causality.

    Where did you get your latest stuff from Lateralus? A speech by Newt Gingrich?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post

    The only problem is, people pretending to be intelligent will keep mindlessly chanting "government is the problem" without realizing the incredible irony of that false causality.

    Where did you get your latest stuff from Lateralus? A speech by Newt Gingrich?
    Where the hell is the irony? I contend that it only exists in the minds of ignoramus's that know absolutely nothing about the function of government, and how it has performed historically.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Where the hell is the irony? I contest that it only exists in the minds of ignoramus's that know absolutely nothing about the function of government, and how it has performed historically.
    "government sucks"--solution---neglect trying to make govt work/do well---govt ends up actually sucking. That's the irony.

    and you're being the ignoramus. I'm sure you have no idea about the function of government, or else you wouldn't have the opinion that you do.

    it's amazing how much brainwashing the american conservative movement has accomplished.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    "government sucks"--solution---neglect trying to make govt work/do well---govt ends up actually sucking. That's the irony.
    Government fails due to human nature. If we have to try to make the government work well, the system is flawed. It should work well regardless of the character of the individuals in office.

    Government will never be able to allocate resources as efficiently as the market. That's not to say there aren't companies that perform worse than the government. There are, but they don't last long (they go bankrupt) and those resources are eventually allocated by more efficient companies. The problem with government allocating resources is that once it assumes that position, it never gives it up.

    and you're being the ignoramus. I'm sure you have no idea about the function of government, or else you wouldn't have the opinion that you do.

    it's amazing how much brainwashing the american conservative movement has accomplished.
    I see insults, but no substance. And what is this about the American conservative movement? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? I doubt it.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #26
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Default I CAN HAZ BAILOUT, TOO??

    LOL. Now real estate developers want aboard the bailout gravy train.
    Are these guys for real?

    Developers Ask U.S. for Bailout as Massive Debt Looms - WSJ.com
    By LINGLING WEI and JON HILSENRATH
    With a record amount of commercial real-estate debt coming due, some of the country's biggest property developers have become the latest to go hat-in-hand to the government for assistance.
    They're warning policymakers that thousands of office complexes, hotels, shopping centers and other commercial buildings are headed into defaults, foreclosures and bankruptcies. The reason: according to research firm Foresight Analytics LCC, $530 billion of commercial mortgages will be coming due for refinancing in the next three years -- with about $160 billion maturing in the next year. Credit, meanwhile, is practically nonexistent and cash flows from commercial property are siphoning off.

    Unlike home loans, which borrowers repay after a set period of time, commercial mortgages usually are underwritten for five, seven or 10 years with big payments due at the end. At that point, they typically need to be refinanced. A borrower's inability to refinance could force it to give up the property to the lender.

    A recent letter sent to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, and signed by a dozen real-estate trade groups, painted a bleak scenario: "Right now, we believe there is insufficient systemic capacity to refinance expiring, performing commercial real-estate loans," said the letter. "For many borrowers, [credit] simply is not available," the letter noted.

    To head off some of the impending pain, the industry is asking to be included in a new $200 billion loan program initially created by the government to salvage the market for car loans, student loans and credit-card debt. This money is intended to go directly to help investors finance purchases of securities backed by these assets. If commercial real estate is included, banks might have an incentive to make more loans to developers since they'd be able to repackage and sell them more easily to investors with the assurance of government backing.

    As part of their lobbying efforts, some industry representatives have asked lawmakers to explore the idea of setting up a separate program aimed at boosting lending to commercial real estate only.

    The real-estate executives are warning that the approaching surge in commercial mortgages coming due poses another major threat to the global financial system, which already is on life support. With rent prices falling and vacancies rising due to the weakening economy, delinquencies on commercial mortgages already have begun to rise sharply.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  7. #27
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    What should the next step be?
    Quote Originally Posted by fleurdujour View Post
    All of these bailouts are bad news...
    PR campaign

  8. #28
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    The US Government and the Federal Reserve are currently pushing the economy into an abyss. The cure being peddled by the charlatans in Washington will be worse than the disease.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    The US Government and the Federal Reserve are currently pushing the economy into an abyss. The cure being peddled by the charlatans in Washington will be worse than the disease.
    I agree. I can't believe they are going to give so much money.

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