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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    This is simple Nihilen:

    If you want to create a free Palestinian state, then fine, it's not antisemitism. Not at all. Indeed, it would only be a political issue, and we can discuss it.

    But if you want to eradicate Israel during the process, then it is antisemitism.

    And don't say I'm trying to silence you, I'm not.

    You're only trying to flee what's obvious.

    Again, you have lied about what Tzipi Livni really said. Why?

    ----

    Imagine that I would be in favor to wipe out every Arab states in the world, because Arabs are inherently "racists", and "violents", and "thieves"... and so on. Then you would say that I have "more than an issue" with Arabs. And you would be right indeed...

    Now, try to replace the word "Arab" with "Hebrew" and check the result.

    Try to use some logic while you still can (since you pretend to be an INTP).
    Quoting one of my posts in this same thread:

    Idealistically, I don't believe Israel had a right to exist. But I also don't believe -now- anyone has the right to remove it. It's there, and we have to deal with the situation rationally as it's presented to us.

    We need to find a middle-ground, if the 2-state solution is the most feasible solution, so be it.
    Now, I really hope you feel as ridiculous as you look like from where I'm standing.

  2. #32
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post

    Now, I really hope you feel as ridiculous as you look like from where I'm standing.
    Frankly, I prefer to be ridiculous and be proven wrong.
    Ridicule doesn't kill, but this conflict does. And I've lost a few friends already. :sad:

    So you think the two-states solution is better for all? That's also what I think. Only difference is that even "Ideallistically", I think Israel has a right to exist, probably as much as Arab states also have a right to exist. And I think that if we want to achieve peace, both people (Arabs and Israelis) should genuinely think the same way, with no ambiguity whatsoever. And what you wrote so far... well... remains quite ambiguous, but anyway I will imagine you didn't mean it that way.

    If you know Shalom Arshav or the Meretz, well, you'll probably figure out where I stand, politically speaking. I'm not an Israeli citizen (I could be, I have family there), and as a matter of fact, I do not intend to live there, since I have something against guns and long active service into occupied territories. I guess we should both understand why.

    What do you think of the Geneva Initiative, as a basis for further dialogue?

    Geneva Initiative - Yes to an agreement - Home Page
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Frankly, I prefer to be ridiculous and be proven wrong.
    Ridicule don't kill, but this conflict does. And I've lost a few friends already. :sad:
    Well, I've lost a couple cities already.



    Anyway I felt that was the typical ENTP way to enter a debate, that's how I used to debate too before I got banned from 4 consecutive forums.

    So you think the two-states solution is better for all? That's also what I think. Only difference is that even "Ideallistically", I think Israel has a right to exist, probably as much as Arab states also have a right to exist. And I think that if we want to achieve peace, both people (Arabs and Israelis) should genuinely think the same way, with no ambiguity whatsoever. And what you wrote so far... well... remains quite ambiguous, but anyway I will imagine you didn't mean it that way.
    Religious and nationalistic have no basis in my set of considerations. I am actually Maronite (If you know what that means), and I find it ridiculous to thrive for a nation for Maronites, or Druzes or Shiites or Jews.

    And about ambiguity, these were your baseless attacks. Being called antisemitic -Or terrorist- online over the years really lost its meaning

    It is also a very ignorant claim, since I am a Semite myself.

    If you know Shalom Arshav or the Meretz, well, you'll probably figure out where I stand, politically speaking. I'm not an Israeli citizen (I could be, I have family there), and as a matter of fact, I do not intend to live there, since I have something against guns and long active service into occupied territories. I guess we should both understand why.

    What do you think of the Geneva Initiative, as a basis for further dialogue?

    Geneva Initiative - Yes to an agreement - Home Page
    Seems like a good start, now I'm off to Montreal; laters.

  4. #34
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    Religious and nationalistic have no basis in my set of considerations. I am actually Maronite (If you know what that means), and I find it ridiculous to thrive for a nation for Maronites, or Druzes or Shiites or Jews.
    Jewish people are a nation and culture, not only a religion. Throughout history, you can find lot of quintessential Jews who also were deep atheists: Spinoza, Freud, Bohr, Einstein... et caetera

    My mother is Ashkenazic, hence I'm Jewish too. But spiritually speaking, I'm rather a strong atheist.

    I know perfectly who the Maronites are, I have a lot of close Lebanese friends (mostly amongst the Shia and Druze communities).

    And about ambiguity, these were your baseless attacks. Being called antisemitic -Or terrorist- online over the years really lost its meaning
    The fact remains you use sterotypical antisemitic propaganda, plus lots of ambiguity, and this whole thread is based on a lie (since Tzipi Livni never said what you wanted her to say). You may not even be aware of this, antisemitism is just considered "normal" in most Arab states, including Lebanon.
    So it has probably no meaning for you, it never had. It's just some kind of "background noise". Since you are a Maronite, it's not as loud as it can be amongst Hezbollah followers, but it still pervades most of the Lebanese society, unfortunately.

    No wonder you have been repeatedly banned from fora. You may not even really understand why, and find this unfair.

    It is also a very ignorant claim, since I am a Semite myself.
    This is one of the antisemitic stereotype I was refering to. Almost every antisemitic Arab will try to use it one way or the other.

    (Very predictable)

    ---

    Now open a dictionary, and read what you see in the "antisemite" entry.
    A word has the meaning of its current use, not of its etymology.

    I would not delve into history and talk about Wilhelm Marr, Léo Taxil and many others, but I think you still have a lot to learn. Maybe you're very young, and that would explain your bitterness, your ignorance and taste for morbid pictures.



    Seems like a good start, now I'm off to Montreal; laters.
    Nous devrions essayer de parler français, alors? Mais je ne suis pas sûr que tout le monde pourrait nous suivre.
    Je suis désolé d'être dûr et très direct, mais le paradoxe c'est que comme tu l'as peut-être compris, tu as en fait affaire à un militant pacifiste, c'est à dire quelqu'un qui a plusieurs fois manifesté contre le bombardement des infrastructures de ton pays.
    Si même moi, tout gauchiste que je suis, je me sens contraint de te rappeler à l'ordre parce que tu ne maîtrises pas tout à fait tes pensées et tes explications (même si je pense que nous pourrions trouver un terrain d'entente) c'est qu'il y a quand même un problème, et aussi je te demande d'y réfléchir, et de faire à l'avenir quand même très attention aux mots que tu emploies, et à leur sens exact.

    Le fait que tu emploies presque inconsciemment plusieurs figures de style classiquement antisémites n'implique pas que tu le sois nécessairement, mais cela traduit quand même une certaine contamination idéologique pouvant s'être transmise, en effet, par l'environnement culturel dominant dans beaucoup trop de pays arabes (hélas). J'ai beaucoup d'amis libanais figure-toi, et nous discutons souvent de cela. On peut se soigner de cette maladie-là, il n'y a aucune fatalité pour peu qu'on en prenne soudainement conscience.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Jewish people are a nation and culture, not only a religion. Throughout history, you can find lot of quintessential Jews who also were deep atheists: Spinoza, Freud, Bohr, Einstein... et caetera

    My mother is Ashkenazic, hence I'm Jewish too. But spiritually speaking, I'm rather a strong atheist.

    I know perfectly who the Maronites are, I have a lot of close Lebanese friends (mostly amongst the Shia and Druze communities).
    Same goes for Maronites, and I still find Zionist claims ridiculous. I know what Jewish people are, you forgot Kafka, Picasso and others.

    The fact remains you use sterotypical antisemitic propaganda, plus lots of ambiguity, and this whole thread is based on a lie (since Tzipi Livni never said what you wanted her to say). You may not even be aware of this, antisemitism is just considered "normal" in most Arab states, including Lebanon.
    So it has probably no meaning for you, it never had. It's just some kind of "background noise". Since you are a Maronite, it's not as loud as it can be amongst Hezbollah followers, but it still pervades most of the Lebanese society, unfortunately.
    Nah, sorry I don't. You are using stereotypical anti-Palestinian propaganda, but well, since you're Jewish that's probably some kind of "background noise". You're most probably not even aware of it. (go figure, this works both ways).

    No wonder you have been repeatedly banned from fora. You may not even really understand why, and find this unfair.
    I'm usually banned because of religious topics, while calling Christians deluded, or some characteristic of that sort. I just do it very bluntly.

    This is one of the antisemitic stereotype I was refering to. Almost every antisemitic Arab will try to use it one way or the other.

    (Very predictable)

    ---

    Now open a dictionary, and read what you see in the "antisemite" entry.
    A word has the meaning of its current use, not of its etymology.

    I would not delve into history and talk about Wilhelm Marr, Léo Taxil and many others, but I think you still have a lot to learn. Maybe you're very young, and that would explain your bitterness, your ignorance and taste for morbid pictures.
    I'm not, I was actually a stereotypical maronite ethnocentric semitic/Phoenicians nationalist in my younger years.

    You assume too much and figure out / observe too little. Practically all of your conclusions about me are flawed so far.

    Nous devrions essayer de parler français, alors? Mais je ne suis pas sûr que tout le monde pourrait nous suivre.
    Je suis désolé d'être dûr et très direct, mais le paradoxe c'est que comme tu l'as peut-être compris, tu as en fait affaire à un militant pacifiste, c'est à dire quelqu'un qui a plusieurs fois manifesté contre le bombardement des infrastructures de ton pays.
    Si même moi, tout gauchiste que je suis, je me sens contraint de te rappeler à l'ordre parce que tu ne maîtrises pas tout à fait tes pensées et tes explications (même si je pense que nous pourrions trouver un terrain d'entente) c'est qu'il y a quand même un problème, et aussi je te demande d'y réfléchir, et de faire à l'avenir quand même très attention aux mots que tu emploies, et à leur sens exact.

    Le fait que tu emploies presque inconsciemment plusieurs figures de style classiquement antisémites n'implique pas que tu le sois nécessairement, mais cela traduit quand même une certaine contamination idéologique pouvant s'être transmise, en effet, par l'environnement culturel dominant dans beaucoup trop de pays arabes (hélas). J'ai beaucoup d'amis libanais figure-toi, et nous discutons souvent de cela. On peut se soigner de cette maladie-là, il n'y a aucune fatalité pour peu qu'on en prenne soudainement conscience.
    Je hais parler en Francais sur les Forums, je ne peux pas bien m'exprimer en manque d'accents. Mon clavier est trop stupide.

  6. #36
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    I was born a Jew, but my religion is agnostic, since I think it's stupid one way or another to say "I KNOW FOR CERTAIN THAT MY GOD EXISTS!" I'd honestly like incontrovertible proof one way or another, but until then, I have to say that I love the Jewish culture. I mean put it this way, almost every single one of the Jewish holidays can be summed up in nine words.

    "They tried to kill us. We won. Let's eat."

    I mean how awesome is that? And unlike Christmas, our winter holiday lasts more than a week, meaning that sometimes, we can go to more than one party ^_^

    But as for anti-Palestinianism: they're unproductive parasites upon the world. They're dirty, filthy, stupid, blow themselves up over a religion, and generally contribute nothing to the improvement of social welfare on a global scale.

    From a purely cold-blooded, rational, utilitarian standpoint, every breath drawn by a Palestinian is an utter waste of good resources.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post

    But as for anti-Palestinianism: they're unproductive parasites upon the world. They're dirty, filthy, stupid, blow themselves up over a religion, and generally contribute nothing to the improvement of social welfare on a global scale.
    Yet people who oppose such blatant racism are called anti-semitic.

  8. #38
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    Want to find me a counter to my point?

    When was the last time a Palestinian won a nobel prize?

    Oh whoops, that's right, NEVER!

    What do the Palestinian territories import?

    All manners of foreign aid.

    What do the Palestinian territories export?

    Terrorism, suicide bombers, and radical Islam.

    There's no racism involved here.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Want to find me a counter to my point?

    When was the last time a Palestinian won a nobel prize?

    Oh whoops, that's right, NEVER!

    What do the Palestinian territories import?

    All manners of foreign aid.

    What do the Palestinian territories export?

    Terrorism, suicide bombers, and radical Islam.

    There's no racism involved here.
    Racist.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Want to find me a counter to my point?

    When was the last time a Palestinian won a nobel prize?

    Oh whoops, that's right, NEVER!

    What do the Palestinian territories import?

    All manners of foreign aid.

    What do the Palestinian territories export?

    Terrorism, suicide bombers, and radical Islam.

    There's no racism involved here.
    palestine has no water and limited electricity. just what do you expect to be exported, airplanes?

    no water and limited electricity, versus billiosn and billions of aid to israel. Palestine gets smuggled rocket launchers, israel recieves fighter jets.

    you are a racist.

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