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  1. #11
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Why do people vote for candidates based on how charismatic they are and not the issues? In all seriousness, most of our presidents pre-t.v. would not have gotten elected.

    "Well...he raised taxes 40%, implemented complete gun control, hasn't fixed a road in twenty years and started a war with Russia...he's still good to go though because he sounds witty."
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  2. #12
    Oberon
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    He seems very earnest. He comes off as very bright and articulate. He looks good on television, and sounds good on radio. He will not win the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008 unless Hillary Clinton gets run over by a bus.

    He may become Hillary's running mate.

  3. #13
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Why do people vote for candidates based on how charismatic they are and not the issues? In all seriousness, most of our presidents pre-t.v. would not have gotten elected.

    "Well...he raised taxes 40%, implemented complete gun control, hasn't fixed a road in twenty years and started a war with Russia...he's still good to go though because he sounds witty."
    Well I don't know if this is in reference to my post or not, but I said that I voted for competency instead of issues. (I don't know where you got "charisma instead of issues" from.) For example in 2000, when I hadn't participated in many elections, I was going to vote for Bush because I leaned slightly more toward conservative overall at that time. Then on the way to the polls I thought, "Wait a minute. What if some unexpected crisis happens. Who do I think will be able to deal with the situation better? Bush or Gore?" And I ended up voting for Gore instead, because it has always been obvious to me that Bush is an idiot.

    After all from a historical perspective most presidents are remembered by the things that happened during their terms rather than where they stood on the issues. How much did Lincoln raise or lower taxes? I have no idea. Every time I study Lincoln the Civil War ends up being a huge focus for some reason.
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  4. #14
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    I think Obama is going to make a great VP in the second Clinton administration.

  5. #15
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Well I don't know if this is in reference to my post or not, but I said that I voted for competency instead of issues. (I don't know where you got "charisma instead of issues" from.) For example in 2000, when I hadn't participated in many elections, I was going to vote for Bush because I leaned slightly more toward conservative overall at that time. Then on the way to the polls I thought, "Wait a minute. What if some unexpected crisis happens. Who do I think will be able to deal with the situation better? Bush or Gore?" And I ended up voting for Gore instead, because it has always been obvious to me that Bush is an idiot.

    After all from a historical perspective most presidents are remembered by the things that happened during their terms rather than where they stood on the issues. How much did Lincoln raise or lower taxes? I have no idea. Every time I study Lincoln the Civil War ends up being a huge focus for some reason.
    I wasn't speaking about anyone's post in particular. You make a good point, but Lincoln probably wouldn't have gotten elected today.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  6. #16
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    True, Lincoln was supposed to be one ugly mofo.
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  7. #17
    Rubber Nipple Salesperson ladypinkington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    True, Lincoln was supposed to be one ugly mofo.
    I am picturing Lincoln as Shaft now. He's a complicated man and no one understands him even his country, Lincoln, You're damn right.
    LOL.
    He's one bad.. Hush yo mouth!
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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    He seems very earnest. He comes off as very bright and articulate. He looks good on television, and sounds good on radio. He will not win the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008 unless Hillary Clinton gets run over by a bus.

    He may become Hillary's running mate.
    I volunteer to drive the bus.

    I like Obama. He seems driven by good motives, and he appears intelligent and thoughtful. Unfortunately, he will probably lose the nomination to a power-hungry, patronizing carpetbagger.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I'd rather see Richardson win over Obama, the media construct. I will not vote for Hillary.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I wasn't speaking about anyone's post in particular. You make a good point, but Lincoln probably wouldn't have gotten elected today.
    Ironically, Lincoln was actually chosen by the party (wasn't he a whig?) and promoted as the candidate that was most likely to win the election for the party... because he offended the least amount of people.

    IOW, while he was well-known for his oratory by that point, the circumstances of his election were similar in some ways to Bush (who was selected by his party primarily because he was the candidate they could field who had the best chance to win).

    Of course, there is pretty much where the similarities end.

    And no, Lincoln probably wouldn't be elected today. Today's world is image conscious. Before mass media existed, one's content of speech and action had more impact than one's appearance and image. Lincoln physically was tall and lanky, he wasn't very handsome, and he had a cracky voice, among other things. When he won people over, it was because he was likable, intelligent, and kind... but all of those things demanded some experience with the man to realize.

    ---

    I think Hillary easily has the best chance to win a national election out of all the Democrats and also is far ahead in the polls right now above Obama. She also exudes more savvy and experience than Obama, but I think as Obama's experience increases, he will become more and more viable; I would expect him to one day become the Dem nomination, if things don't sour for him.

    The Republican roster stinks right now. Is Guliani the best they can do? It's rather pathetic.
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