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  1. #11
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    This dilemma of multiculturalism is very topical in Australia at the moment with regards to the Aboriginal people living in remote northern communities. Sexual abuse against minors is extremely common, even with children as young as 2 and 3. However, the offenders say that this has always been their tradition. It's become a cultural institution among many communities there. Thus the Australian government is reluctant to take any meaningful steps to safeguard the rights of the victims because it fears being branded "paternalistic" or racist. They are reluctant to be seen as suppressing any aspect of Aboriginal culture, since so much Aboriginal culture has already been lost forever as a result of European settlement.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    This dilemma of multiculturalism is very topical in Australia at the moment with regards to the Aboriginal people living in remote northern communities. Sexual abuse against minors is extremely common, even with children as young as 2 and 3. However, the offenders say that this has always been their tradition. It's become a cultural institution among many communities there. Thus the Australian government is reluctant to take any meaningful steps to safeguard the rights of the victims because it fears being branded "paternalistic" or racist. They are reluctant to be seen as suppressing any aspect of Aboriginal culture, since so much Aboriginal culture has already been lost forever as a result of European settlement.

    Sometimes, just sometimes, the world doesn't make any sense to me.......
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  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I see the value in preserving "culture" when possible.

    But I also think that some behaviors are inherently destructive and must be challenged.

    Is there a list of general rules that could be followed in terms of when a culture should be challenged or interfered with?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  4. #14
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    When it violates civil or criminal law, within the jurisdiction of that law, the individuals practicing the custom should be subject to the penalties of the law.

    There's a better theoretical answer, but the above will do to go on with until we've worked it out.

  5. #15
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I see the value in preserving "culture" when possible.

    But I also think that some behaviors are inherently destructive and must be challenged.

    Is there a list of general rules that could be followed in terms of when a culture should be challenged or interfered with?
    I agree with you, but there's a pattern as to which cultures get to do the critiquing and correcting and which cultures must to the adjusting and changing.

    Cultural imperialism is still a very real phenomenon.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I agree with you, but there's a pattern as to which cultures get to do the critiquing and correcting and which cultures must to the adjusting and changing. Cultural imperialism is still a very real phenomenon.
    True, that is a concern.

    Right now, I'm more just speculating -- What do the people on this forum think would be good guidelines to use if they were in a position to interfere productively with another culture?

    (True, we tend to have similar cultural perspectives, but I was just curious what we think such a list would look like.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    True, that is a concern.

    Right now, I'm more just speculating -- What do the people on this forum think would be good guidelines to use if they were in a position to interfere productively with another culture?

    (True, we tend to have similar cultural perspectives, but I was just curious what we think such a list would look like.)
    Well, whenever I think about these situations, I think about how many women are still abused. What makes this a tragedy is that she wasn't allowed to escape, enforced by the law.

    Regardless, it's not exactly like Western civilisation was so great this way either. It's taken a very long time to get to the point where we can look down on other cultures. In the 19th century, it was foreigners who thought America was backward and abusing of their women.

    It's just how the cycles turn. Is it wrong? Absolutely - but this case isn't the norm and it is being dealt with.

  8. #18
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    This political correctness that plagues liberal perspectives is ultimately cowardice. We used to have a right to remain silent, but now it's a duty for fear of offending others. In America, white people are often not allowed to voice their opinions of other people without being deemed racist (i.e., NAACP is a cultural advancement organization, NAAWP is racist, even though it is clear that white people are often more discriminated against than so-called minorities).

    Multiculturalism may sound like a good idea to some people, but as we let other cultures into our way of life, we are basically letting them invade us. Some people are just too stupid to realize that invasion takes on more forms than guns and bombs -- it's a more subtle invasion.

    What particularly disgusts me is a liberal American desire to become bilingual. I find no logic in that. We have always spoken English, and I do not see why our language has to be changed because of foreigners. When my ancestors came to America, they learned to speak English.

    I have come across so many people who ask me a question in a foreign language as if I'm supposed to understand. I think that if a non-English-speaking foreigner immigrates here, they should be responsible for learning our language and adapting to our way of life.

    If people are going to move to another country, then they should abide by the country's laws and know their language. An immigrant's culture of heritage should be maintained in their own home. When they go out into the world, they should abide by the people who make the rules. If they disagree with the culture of the nation, then they probably shouldn't have moved to that nation.

    America is going through so much confusion because of this political correctness horse shit that I think we should ship these immigrants to where they came from. Or better yet, build death camps to imprison opponents of the majority. Yes, we can learn a lot from history!

  9. #19
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    Right now, I'm more just speculating -- What do the people on this forum think would be good guidelines to use if they were in a position to interfere productively with another culture?
    True equality of both females and males
    No dsicrimination based on colour (read caste system)
    No physical abuse in any form (FGM, rape, early marriages, domestic violence)
    Punishments that actually fit the crime (I mean why stone an adulterer to death?)

    For a start at least.

    I have noticed a tendency of people to go back to western past and use that "Oh who are we to say anything, just look at our own countries" "Oh I am soooooo ashamed of my countries violent and imperialistic past", yet what they are missing is that IT IS in the past, and times have changed.

    I don't feel ashamed of the past, at least not to the point where it hinders my ability to see the way forward. We learn from it, not allow it to make us too ashamed to speak up.

    I just don't think that people should be able to get away with human rights abuses in the name of "Culture". Preserve other peoples cultures by all means, but again that's not progress and progress is what life is about, but when preserving a culture, you can't step back and say "Oh I'm not going to say anything to that mother who told me the other day that she is getting her daughter cut" (true story :steam: )

    Take slavery, it still goes on, yet I see some people clam up and focus on their own slavery past, too ashamed to see that the lesson we were meant to learn from that was don't do it, and stop it when you see others doing it, NOT as so many react, with complete red faced shame that their ancestors did it.

    My ancestors commited FGM, but that doesn't reflect on me, I still have a right to speak out against it, my ancestors sold slaves, but that also doesn't reflect on me, I can speak against it without feeling ashamed.

    Just because domestic violence exists within our own cultures (AGAINST the law I might add) (yes new laws I also hasten to add) doesn't mean that it's not our place to put a stop to it where we find it, no matter what umbrella it comes underneath.

    Sorry, rant over.........for now.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  10. #20
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    This is a terrible regression. I don't remember where I read this, but I think there was a period shortly after the fall of the Roman empire where there were courts that would judge Romans according to Roman law, Franks according to Frankish law, and so on. I believe it was related to the ascendancy of a German called Odacer or something.

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