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  1. #11
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Not sure... I've seen many SJ's who were in the military (Marines, for the most part), an SP who was in the Marines, and an NT (INTP) who's in the Air Force now. I don't see any particular correlation, although the SJ's really enjoy falling back upon their military experience as something of a significant accomplishment in their lives. For some others, eg one NF and another NT I used to know who were in the military (Navy, Army respectively), you'd never know they went except you hear about it in passing conversation.

    My ESTP friend doesn't brag about his experience either, he just happily reaps the rewards (GI bill) and pats himself on the back for doing it. He does enjoy relating stories, especially when they relate to the setting (eg talking about sushi he had while stationed in Okinawa, when we're at a japanese restaurant)

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    Not sure... I've seen many SJ's who were in the military (Marines, for the most part), an SP who was in the Marines, and an NT (INTP) who's in the Air Force now. I don't see any particular correlation, although the SJ's really enjoy falling back upon their military experience as something of a significant accomplishment in their lives. For some others, eg one NF and another NT I used to know who were in the military (Navy, Army respectively), you'd never know they went except you hear about it in passing conversation.

    Maybe I'm being sensitive, but are you saying military service isn't significant?

    Hm, on the other hand, Marines do have an inflated sense of pride. My personal opinion is that its completely warranted, but I can see where others would disagree or not understand why.

    Edited to add: I just saw your edit. I think I was being a bit sensitive. Everyone tells me sushi is awesome in Oki, but I wouldn't touch the stuff to save my life. Don't know why, it's a mental thing I think, lol.

  3. #13
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindyrella View Post
    Maybe I'm being sensitive, but are you saying military service isn't significant?
    I don't think it's insignificant, but I can say it was a much more important part of my ISTJ grandfather's self concept than my ENFP brother's. For my dad, who I used to think was ISFJ but now I think he might be INFJ, it doesn't really figure into his self-concept at all. He did what he was asked to do, and then he got the heck out.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #14
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindyrella View Post
    Maybe I'm being sensitive, but are you saying military service isn't significant?

    Hm, on the other hand, Marines do have an inflated sense of pride. My personal opinion is that its completely warranted, but I can see where others would disagree or not understand why.

    Edited to add: I just saw your edit. I think I was being a bit sensitive. Everyone tells me sushi is awesome in Oki, but I wouldn't touch the stuff to save my life. Don't know why, it's a mental thing I think, lol.
    Not at all, my apologies for implying such. I'm saying the SJ's I've known make no mistake in ensuring everyone understands how significant it is to their identity (probably a better way to phrase it), whereas the others don't really advertise it as much.

    (I have the utmost highest respect for those who serve in the military, just to clarify.)

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't think it's insignificant, but I can say it was a much more important part of my ISTJ grandfather's self concept than my ENFP brother's. For my dad, who I used to think was ISFJ but now I think he might be INFJ, it doesn't really figure into his self-concept at all. He did what he was asked to do, and then he got the heck out.
    See, my dad was the same of yours. He did a full 20 years before retiring from the military, so it was clearly a big part of his life, but he's not "motivated" (I honestly don't know how to explain that term in any civilian way, sorry). For instance, there is not one Marine Corps sticker on the back of his truck. Now, as for his wife and daughters?! We all have stickers on our vehicles, haha. It's almost like it defines us more than it does him. It's something my mom and I especially carry on our sleeve as something we identify with, whereas he would just as soon not discuss it. However, I have seen him get emotional at certain points, like at his retirement party and when he has left certain squadrons. I think it had more to do with the people he worked with, though.

    I am a LOT like my dad, and I would love to know what his type is. I'll have to get him to take the test. I have a feeling he is an INF_ like me. We'll see!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    Not at all, my apologies for implying such. I'm saying the SJ's I've known make no mistake in ensuring everyone understands how significant it is to their identity (probably a better way to phrase it), whereas the others don't really advertise it as much.

    (I have the utmost highest respect for those who serve in the military, just to clarify.)
    I got it now, thanks for clarifying.

  7. #17
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindyrella View Post
    See, my dad was the same of yours. He did a full 20 years before retiring from the military, so it was clearly a big part of his life, but he's not "motivated" (I honestly don't know how to explain that term in any civilian way, sorry).
    My father spent 33 years in the Air Force and you'd be hard pressed to see it today, he's been retired since 1992. I've had him take the test and he scores ESFJ. As a child he was nothing if not the textbook ESTJ. I suspect 30+ years in uniform made him behave / react a little different than he would naturally prefer to, and now, 15 years later, well, he's "Tony", not "The Retired Colonel".

    This signature left intentionally blank.

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  8. #18
    Junior Member alex's Avatar
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    I think it's the book, "Type Talk at Work" that coresponds INTJ's as being successfull military leaders. I'm enlisted-turned-officer, and I can't honestly say I could peg everyone branch to their corresponding types, although after ten years of working with all branches, they certainly have what I would say absolute differences especially in the "molding" of officers.

    When I was in college my military professor introduced us all to MB and had us all take the test. He said that the military tends to sometimes either neutralize or "mold" us into certain types, with xNTJs being more common in the military than in the civilian world.

    I would guess that the differences between the leaders of the military and the junior soldiers (both junior enlisted and junior officers) are teaching them to become stronger NT's overall.

    Just my hypothesis...

  9. #19
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex View Post
    I think it's the book, "Type Talk at Work" that coresponds INTJ's as being successfull military leaders. I'm enlisted-turned-officer, and I can't honestly say I could peg everyone branch to their corresponding types, although after ten years of working with all branches, they certainly have what I would say absolute differences especially in the "molding" of officers.
    Indirectly, it does (It says, in general, INTJs are leaders, including the military. I believe it has a bit about why too, if memory serves). The book is by Otto Kroeger in case anyone wants to find it. Very interesting.

    I would guess that the differences between the leaders of the military and the junior soldiers (both junior enlisted and junior officers) are teaching them to become stronger NT's overall.
    It's one of those funny things. The "ideal" soldier is one who follows orders and will march into a (literal) bullet. The reality is that good soldiers are not those that follow orders (that's be gone since WW1 with the end of "walking in lines into your enemies"), but those that understand and adapt orders to the situations. Those that can reach objectives and questions methodology more than authority.

    Having said that, the political forces don't like that. "Whatever works" is no more popular with leadership than it is with the general populace (just as NTJs can get a really bad wrap in the corporate and personal world).

    It's also why it is important to seperate certain other branches of miliary - like peacekeeper forces, police and such. Each has a different culture... the military, in an ideal world, would be NTJs working out how to kill each other as effectively as possible.

  10. #20
    Junior Member alex's Avatar
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    Thanks for the book quote, pt.

    My last job was at a high echelon; corps. That's where I learned to temper my aggressive, overbearing personality with other senior-level leaders. The "ideal" soldier, to me, is that of a junior enlisted or a junior officer, where they should learn to be better followers in order to groom them to be leaders.

    Types seemed to play the most importance when dealing with politics, and now that I think about it, the higher on the leadership chain, the more neutral the type traits. Otherwise, you can't get anything done; there's zero receptiveness.

    As for the branches, I was talking more about the US military, as the Marines, Air Force, Navy and Army. I'm Army. I see the Marines as far right and the Air Force as left, as far as military left can go. Again, it is hard to not be stereotypical but as I'm also an International Relations weenie, I second your assessment of other areas of international military forces, and them being more in tune with grooming NTJs to become stronger NTJs.

    What do you think?

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