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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    nonsense. You must have missed hte past 8 years of george bush receiving orders from god to blow up stuff in iraq. Just how many people in italy are not catholic. The fact is that in so many nations, the overwhelming majority of people identify themselves as christians that there does not need to be any separation, because in fact there is none. Germany has plenty of official state holidays which correspond to christian fables. The US, officially recognizes christmas and easter as holidays. No ramadan, no passover, no flying spaghetti monster day, as the populations to event request such days are so infinitely minute.

    Nobody told me that the soviet union was equivalent to the US. I am sitting in what used to be its most western boundary and would not believe it if someone told me either.

    Islam and christianity are both equivalent and both should be reduced to the fairy tales they preach.
    The Secular State guarantees freedom of religion.

    But in return insists on the Separation of Church and State.

    This forms the basis of Western Civilization.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    1. Which they shouldn't have. Israel is a country created on foreign soil, on foreign people. The Jews long since didn't have a country, and they shouldn't be given one for no reason.
    It's ironic isn't it?

    Islamic terrorists attack Mumbai in India. And your instinctive response is to attack Israel.

    This instinct is called anti-semitism.

  3. #33
    Broud Balestinian G-Virus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This would be nice to believe but the Koran teaches Jihad and Martyrdom.

    And it is the carrying out of Jihad and Martyrdom in the modern world that constitutes terrorism.

    But worse, those who carry out the teaching of their holy book believe they are being good in the eyes of Allah who will richly reward them in Heaven.
    Do those people committing terrorist acts believe that they are being good in the eyes of god? Yes they do. Does this mean that the Quran teaches people to go blow things up? No it does not.

    I am a Muslim and I follow my holy book. If you read the Quran and the reasons of revelation (translation/meaning), you will see that no where in the Quran does it teach preemptive violence or the murdering of innocent people. It states it clearly that you are allowed to defend yourself, your land and your people. It even states that who ever killed a life, it is as if they had killed all of humanity, and who ever had saved a life it is as if they had saved all of humanity.

    The Quran and Sunnah, allow one to fight under the following circumstances: When you, your family, your land, when other Muslims are being attacked, or when Muslims are being oppressed and not allowed to practice their religion in peace. Any jackass can go and take things out of context, but Islam is a religion that is supposed to be implemented in full and understood in full. That is why we are supposed to not only read the Quran, but learn the meaning in the verses, and their purpose. When you donít do this, you get the crazy people that want to kill others for godís sake.

    Honestly, I am not going to argue about this, because I have done this before and know where it goes. People that donít even read or understand Arabic will start quoting verses out of context and saying: ďLook, Islam teaches violence,Ē and then others will reply correcting them and this will go on and on and no one will change their mind. To save my self the trouble, I will say, believe what you want to, and I will believe what I want.
    Seek freedom and become captive of your desires, seek discipline and find your liberty.

    "If you go looking for something in particular, your chances of finding it are very bad, because of all the things in the world, you're only looking for one of them. If you go looking for anything at all, your chances of finding it are very good, because of all the things in the world, you're sure to find some of them."

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    1. Which they shouldn't have. Israel is a country created on foreign soil, on foreign people. The Jews long since didn't have a country, and they shouldn't be given one for no reason.

    The gypsies have no country of their own. Should we give one for them as well?

    Also, the mere existence of it destabilized a whole fucking region.

    2. It was by no means democracy, that created it.
    Like Australia, Israel is a country recognised by the United Nations.

    And like Australia, Israel is a full member of the United Nations.

    And like Australia, Israel has the full protection of the United Nations.

    We know what stability is. And this is called stability.

    And it will stand in the face of hatred.

    Even yours.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The Secular State guarantees freedom of religion.

    But in return insists on the Separation of Church and State.

    This forms the basis of Western Civilization.
    The idea that a religion can believe in seperation of Church and State is against the beliefs of the religion and the omnipotence of god. If a religion believes that God is all knowing and supreme, then he knows what is best for human kind as opposed to what humans think is best. Thus the laws of god in any religion should be seen as supreme, and to believe anything else would be an afront to the omnipotence of god.

    In other words, to say human laws are equal to or better than the laws of god is a direct and blatant statement against ones own religion saying it is subservient or backwards and is not fit for humanity.
    Seek freedom and become captive of your desires, seek discipline and find your liberty.

    "If you go looking for something in particular, your chances of finding it are very bad, because of all the things in the world, you're only looking for one of them. If you go looking for anything at all, your chances of finding it are very good, because of all the things in the world, you're sure to find some of them."

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Virus View Post
    The idea that a religion can believe in seperation of Church and State is against the beliefs of the religion and the omnipotence of god. If a religion believes that God is all knowing and supreme, then he knows what is best for human kind as opposed to what humans think is best. Thus the laws of god in any religion should be seen as supreme, and to believe anything else would be an afront to the omnipotence of god.

    In other words, to say human laws are equal to or better than the laws of god is a direct and blatant statement against ones own religion saying it is subservient or backwards and is not fit for humanity.
    This is in direct violation of the Australian Constitution.

    We bring these people before our Criminal Courts and many are convicted and sentenced to long periods in goal.

  7. #37
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Virus View Post
    The idea that a religion can believe in seperation of Church and State is against the beliefs of the religion and the omnipotence of god. If a religion believes that God is all knowing and supreme, then he knows what is best for human kind as opposed to what humans think is best. Thus the laws of god in any religion should be seen as supreme, and to believe anything else would be an afront to the omnipotence of god.
    True. All the more reason for having such a separation, because some religions believe things that conflict with other behavior that is generally considered reasonable or a "necessary evil" etc. Plus you have different religions themselves conflicting.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  8. #38
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    Lol guys, I understand the idea behind seperation of Church and State. I was just pointing out that it signifies a logical paradox.

    You can't say god is supreme and then make the laws of man more important than his. My idea was to show that a religion that agrees with it is kinda faltering its own beliefs, and since all the heads of religions are agreeing with it, they are showing where they stand on their beliefs.

    ********

    @Victor, do you believe in any specific relgion? Just curious.
    Seek freedom and become captive of your desires, seek discipline and find your liberty.

    "If you go looking for something in particular, your chances of finding it are very bad, because of all the things in the world, you're only looking for one of them. If you go looking for anything at all, your chances of finding it are very good, because of all the things in the world, you're sure to find some of them."

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Virus View Post
    Do those people committing terrorist acts believe that they are being good in the eyes of god? Yes they do. Does this mean that the Quran teaches people to go blow things up? No it does not.

    I am a Muslim and I follow my holy book. If you read the Quran and the reasons of revelation (translation/meaning), you will see that no where in the Quran does it teach preemptive violence or the murdering of innocent people. It states it clearly that you are allowed to defend yourself, your land and your people. It even states that who ever killed a life, it is as if they had killed all of humanity, and who ever had saved a life it is as if they had saved all of humanity.

    The Quran and Sunnah, allow one to fight under the following circumstances: When you, your family, your land, when other Muslims are being attacked, or when Muslims are being oppressed and not allowed to practice their religion in peace. Any jackass can go and take things out of context, but Islam is a religion that is supposed to be implemented in full and understood in full. That is why we are supposed to not only read the Quran, but learn the meaning in the verses, and their purpose. When you donít do this, you get the crazy people that want to kill others for godís sake.

    Honestly, I am not going to argue about this, because I have done this before and know where it goes. People that donít even read or understand Arabic will start quoting verses out of context and saying: ďLook, Islam teaches violence,Ē and then others will reply correcting them and this will go on and on and no one will change their mind. To save my self the trouble, I will say, believe what you want to, and I will believe what I want.
    This is Islamist propaganda which we hear over and over again. It is repeated over and over to put our minds to sleep so that we won't think.

    Islam will be able to join the civilized world when it adopts the doctrine of the separation of Mosque and State.

    And Islam will be able to join the civilized world when it teaches that Jihad and Martyrdom are organised criminality in the modern world.

    And Islam will be able to enter the civilized world when it stops teaching its children to hate Jews and other infidels.

    Otherwise it will remain an imperial religion that practises organised criminality - as we have just seen in Mumbai.

    But none of this will take place until the Koran is subject to scholarly critique.

    But at the moment should an Islamic scholar critique the Koran, they would be put to death for blasphemy.

    Imperial Islam is on the rise so we can expect can expect more organised criminal attacks such as Mumbai.

    As I write Australians are fighting Russian Islamic criminals in Afganistan.

    And as I write Australian Islamic criminals are before our Criminal Courts.

    But they show no remorse, so we must prepare ourselves for further and far reaching criminal attacks.

    God help us.

  10. #40
    Senior Member edel weiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This would be nice to believe but the Koran teaches Jihad and Martyrdom.

    And it is the carrying out of Jihad and Martyrdom in the modern world that constitutes terrorism.

    But worse, those who carry out the teaching of their holy book believe they are being good in the eyes of Allah who will richly reward them in Heaven.
    I think a terrorist is a terrorist, whatever be the religion he professes. Look, I'm from India. We've had terrorism for years together, and bomb blasts have become frequent enough that nobody is even surprised. We have fought off Muslim terrorists in Kashmir, Sikh terrorists in Punjab, Christian terrorists in Nagaland, and Hindu terrorists in Assam and across the country.

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