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  1. #71
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Do you celebrate pain and suffering? Do you celebrate death?
    Perhaps. Depending on what is dying and what it means. And what caused/comes from the suffering or pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    The whole spectrum of experience is a part of life, as you put it. Does this mean all experience is equivalent in value?
    No. But I do revere that which is the opposite of sunshine and rainbows.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Perhaps. Depending on what is dying and what it means. And what caused/comes from the suffering or pain.
    Trying hard not to roll eyes on the first part. Can we not agree that death is (99% of the time) not desirable? Not as good as living?

    As for the second part, even if strength comes from the experience of suffering, this does not mean we should celebrate pain and suffering itself.

    No. But I do revere that which is the opposite of sunshine and rainbows.
    What is the opposite of sunshine and rainbows? Let's talk specifics.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    If you acknowledge that what you do affects others, then you are acknowledging at least some level of responsibility. I can't be held accountable for every decision that some highly sensitive person makes, but I can take responsibility for legitimate hurts (or helps) I offer.
    I'm not acknowledging that. Hmm, how can I esplain... Ah yes: People are responsible for their own actions in almost every situation, and definitely the situation in the OP. You disagree with this to a degree, apparently, so you and I disagree, and in a rather true-to-our-types fashion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Responsibility is rarely a yay or nay proposition. In this case, the situation involves the actions of multiple parties and responsibility is borne in different measure by all parties. The suicide for offing himself so impulsively and the mob for their incitement. Did they do anything illegal? I think not. Ethically wrong? That is obviously so.
    Not necessarily. I can sit here and imagine how annoying this kid was, and basically had to be to put himself in the situation he did, and get so many people to egg him on, jokingly or not.

    So, not only can he be held responsible for taking his own life, he can be held responsible for convincing his audience that he was worthless.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Not necessarily. I can sit here and imagine how annoying this kid was, and basically had to be to put himself in the situation he did, and get so many people to egg him on, jokingly or not.

    So, not only can he be held responsible for taking his own life, he can be held responsible for convincing his audience that he was worthless.
    Being annoying apparently justifies any lack of sympathy? Love your enemies as your self. Even a publican can love his friends.

    So, let me understand your meaning. You are not responsible for convincing someone to kill himself but he is responsible for convincing people to egg him on? You are now being logically inconsistent.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #75
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Trying hard not to roll eyes on the first part. Can we not agree that death is (99% of the time) not desirable? Not as good as living?
    No we cannot agree. I think sometimes death is preferable to life. Suicides apparently agree. As do Euthanasia enthusiasts the world over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    As for the second part, even if strength comes from the experience of suffering, this does not mean we should celebrate pain and suffering itself.
    I don't have a should. I don't prescribe; I describe. You asked me if I celebrated them. And pardon the emomania but I find something wonderfully comforting and in pain/suffering/misery sometimes. And something delicious in destruction.

    What is the opposite of sunshine and rainbows? Let's talk specifics.
    Clouds and Rainfall? Are you going literal here?
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Being annoying apparently justifies any lack of sympathy? Love your enemies as your self. Even a publican can love his friends.

    So, let me understand your meaning. You are not responsible for convincing someone to kill himself but he is responsible for convincing people to egg him on? You are now being logically inconsistent.
    I'm using your argument against you to demonstrate interrelatedness; cause and effect.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    No we cannot agree. I think sometimes death is preferable to life. Suicides apparently agree. As do Euthanasia enthusiasts the world over.
    Pity.

    I don't have a should. I don't prescribe; I describe. You asked me if I celebrated them. And pardon the emomania but I find something wonderfully comforting and in pain/suffering/misery sometimes. And something delicious in destruction.
    What is delicious for you in destruction? What is comforting for you in misery?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #78
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Trying hard not to roll eyes on the first part. Can we not agree that death is (99% of the time) not desirable? Not as good as living?

    As for the second part, even if strength comes from the experience of suffering, this does not mean we should celebrate pain and suffering itself.
    Death is celebrated in certain societies, so is pain.

    Death isn't always bad, I can think of unlimited amounts of scenarios where I would prefer myself dead over alive.

    Selective death is actually useful for the greater good of a species, while possibly unwanted by the close ones, in general it's for the better of both the society and evolution. Of course it depends on what type the process of selection is.



    Now back on topic, persoanlly, I couldn't care less if he "offed" himself. If someone like him came to me, I'd support the decision of suicide.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    Death is celebrated in certain societies, so is pain.

    Death isn't always bad, I can think of unlimited amounts of scenarios where I would prefer myself dead over alive.

    Selective death is actually useful for the greater good of a species, while possibly unwanted by the close ones, in general it's for the better of both the society and evolution. Of course it depends on what type the process of selection is.



    Now back on topic, persoanlly, I couldn't care less if he "offed" himself. If someone like him came to me, I'd support the decision of suicide.
    1. Please cite specific societies and cultural circumstances. If I were to use the example of the Day of the Dead in Mexico, I would say that in that case it is a celebration of life and a connection to lost loved ones, a refutation of the power of death over life, rather than as a nihilistic celebration of death itself.
    2. I am not making a case against all suicide. Personally, I am against it, but I understand the impulse and would not rob a terminal patient of the right to die as they choose when they are clearly about to die. But, the issue of suicide itself should not distract from the responsibility we have to try to preserve life especially when the feeling to commit suicide may be temporary or caused by chemical imbalances beyond our control.
    3. "Now back on topic, persoanlly, I couldn't care less if he "offed" himself. If someone like him came to me, I'd support the decision of suicide." That you couldn't care less is unfortunate. That you would support someone's impulse to die so casually is lamentable.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #80
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    1. Please cite specific societies and cultural circumstances. If I were to use the example of the Day of the Dead in Mexico, I would say that in that case it is a celebration of life and a connection to lost loved ones, a refutation of the power of death over life, rather than as a nihilistic celebration of death itself.

    3. "Now back on topic, persoanlly, I couldn't care less if he "offed" himself. If someone like him came to me, I'd support the decision of suicide." That you couldn't care less is unfortunate. That you would support someone's impulse to die so casually is lamentable.
    Nihilistic, why does it have to be Nihilistic?
    If you look at the past, death in war was considered to be honourary as a simple example. A very simple example would probably be norse militia of the old.

    If you take a theoretical point of view, death in the Abrahamic religions should be taken as a sign of Joy, because if you follow the scripture, we are on earth basically to just be pitiful.

    Possibly, I don't see anything to be worth lamenting. Althou I don't hold life be it human or not in high regard.

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