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  1. #41
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I doubt with impious sincerity that that's all my fault.
    Fixed!

    So far I see some great ideals here being expressed... but no really practical way to implement a system that would consistently improve matters.

    For example, many seem to agree that the Internet and reality TV distance us from real trauma and in fact make it difficult for us to recognize. But how do we fix that? Ban Internet? Ban reality TV? Educate people? Educate them how?

    There tends to be at least three sorts of people here: Those who will be responsible on their own; those who, if jolted a little, WANT to be responsible and will rise to the occasion; and those who either just don't get it when told or else don't WANT to get it. I consider the last group the more troublesome one... and how do you improve THAT group?

    Most people also don't give a damn until someone they know or love gets hurt. That's just reality. This dad is calling for people to crack down on the Internet now -- but was he doing this before? No, because it didn't matter to him. And he thought his son was doing fine; he wasn't even aware that there was a problem. Yet obviously his son was struggling for a long time, to the point of other failed suicide attempts.

    Should the father have been more clued in?

    Is there a way to get more involved in matters BEFORE they reach this stage, so that we're not dependent on the kindness of faceless strangers and dubious friends?

    I don't know the answers to this, or to the parental involvement here. Anyone can make mistakes. I am simply saying this is about something far bigger than just, "Why didn't people report an apparent suicide, especially if they logged in in the middle?" There are many reasons, good or bad, while it might have not been reported promptly.

    How do we prevent the scenario from occurring altogether?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #42
    Reigning Bologna Princess Rajah's Avatar
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    I've given this some thought and, honestly, I don't know how I would have reacted. We're so inundated with stuff like this it'd be borderline ridiculous to alert the authorities every time something appeared to happen. Further, we're talking sheer numbers. Even if we don't care to admit it, a lot of us would assume one of the other 1499 people would make the call. It's different from seeing someone bleeding on the street; the relative anonymity of the internet makes it rather tougher to feel personally invested.


    I... suppose. Yeah!

  3. #43
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    It's kind of disturbing no one did anything for 12 hours, but it is even more disturbing Falcarius could have stumbled upon the live video streaming of a suicide as he uses that website for illegally watching sports matches; Al Jazeera Sports and GOL TV rock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  4. #44
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Fixed!

    So far I see some great ideals here being expressed... but no really practical way to implement a system that would consistently improve matters.

    For example, many seem to agree that the Internet and reality TV distance us from real trauma and in fact make it difficult for us to recognize. But how do we fix that? Ban Internet? Ban reality TV? Educate people? Educate them how?

    There tends to be at least three sorts of people here: Those who will be responsible on their own; those who, if jolted a little, WANT to be responsible and will rise to the occasion; and those who either just don't get it when told or else don't WANT to get it. I consider the last group the more troublesome one... and how do you improve THAT group?
    You can't. You just have to deal with us.

    So far you're all doing a horrible job.

    Most people also don't give a damn until someone they know or love gets hurt. That's just reality. This dad is calling for people to crack down on the Internet now -- but was he doing this before?
    Probably molesting the kid. Why he did it in the first place.
    I'd be pissed if my sex toy was too overwhelmed by what I was doing to it that it went off and destroyed itself too.
    No, because it didn't matter to him. And he thought his son was doing fine; he wasn't even aware that there was a problem. Yet obviously his son was struggling for a long time, to the point of other failed suicide attempts.

    Should the father have been more clued in?
    Maybe. But then the kid could have been even more upset that he's always being watched. Or frequently being watched or whatever.

    Does it occur to anyone else that some people are just bound to be miserable? Especially the type with manic depression.

    Schizophrenia is considered a disorder. Clinical depression is considered a disorder.

    Schizophrenics, regardless of their empirically derived threat are preferably contained.
    That's not the case with the depressed or bipolar.

    So maybe we ought to lock them up!
    Either that, or we release all the schizophrenics.
    Else we're being inconsistent.

    Hmm...
    Does it occur to anyone else that every case might be best handled differently from the precedents?
    It's the same problem with typology.
    We build up stereotypes, and then defenses against the stereotypes rather than the individual offenses, and then we're just shocked and shattered when what we've tailored didn't cover every contingency.

    How do we prevent the scenario from occurring altogether?
    I'm curious -- how are we so convinced that it shouldn't?
    we fukin won boys

  5. #45
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    For example, many seem to agree that the Internet and reality TV distance us from real trauma and in fact make it difficult for us to recognize. But how do we fix that? Ban Internet? Ban reality TV? Educate people? Educate them how?

    Well, I think one of those should go without saying, indepedent of this topic.

    My own opinion is that this is the kind of incidental problem that you're not going to find a solution to. This is not the sort of thing you decide to make policies over, because even in the most ideal society, there will be mentally unstable people that are going to do crap like this anyway.

    As for the people watching? That goes to the exact opposite problem. That's a cultural and mass psychological thing. It's so broad, pervasive, and nebulous that it's hard to imagine how one can feasibly inluence it with policies. There's probably some way to influence it, but the problem is often that people expect far greater results, far sooner than is possible. Anything that I could think of to affect this mindset would be slow and subtle.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #46
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Social problems remain the same throughout the ages. What seems to be changing is the attitude which accompanies them. And I imagine that changes as well over time. Fluxuating.

    I remember when the shift being talked about occurred in this generation.


    Forgive if this has already been referrenced. I haven't taken time to read the whole thread.

    The first national perception of indiference to an individual's death in my lifetime that I remember was the murder of Kitty Genovese in a dark alley where many people heard her prolonged cries for help and no one responded.

    It made national news and the general public was shocked and accusatory of the Eastern city dwellers where it occurred. How could they have been so heartless/gutless?

    We "come to such sights colder" these days.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post

    My own opinion is that this is the kind of incidental problem that you're going to find a solution to. This is not the sort of thing you decide to make policies over, because even in the most ideal society, there will be mentally unstable people that are going to do crap like this anyway.
    Thank you Poriferan, thank you. The mere suggestion of creating new policies for stuff like this honestly worries me...

  8. #48
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    Everyone has the right to take their own life. Kid is responsible for himself. No one else should be judged or held accountable for his actions.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Everyone has the right to take their own life. Kid is responsible for himself. No one else should be judged or held accountable for his actions.
    Therein lies the disagreement (Not with me, we agree). It's becoming more and more of a clear pattern that NFJs, and to a lesser extent NFPs, are promoting the style of society where everyone is responsible for what happens to everyone else. It scares the shit out of me, to be honest, because you know how NFs can be with their ideals: Pretty loud.

  10. #50
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I can see how some blame could go on people emphatically encouraging another to kill him/her self, but I don't see the sense in putting weight on the bystanders, or cracking down on any of the means that just happened to be involved (like the internet).
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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