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  1. #21
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    When someone threatens suicide it isn't the observer's place to make a subjective judgment about whether or not the person is serious or a drama queen. You treat it seriously. That way if it is real the person gets help, and if it is fake the person learns a lesson about reality and consequences in a spirit of genuine concern.

    A great deal of suffering and inhumane treatment results from these invasive judgments about what is going on inside another person. This is worsened when these assumptions lead to a desire to punish, especially group punishment and shaming. Why would the act of being a drama queen require the punishment of egging the person on? How would a flippant observer know enough about psychology to have a slight clue about what such a person would need for rehabilitation. The observers behaved inhumanely regardless of their motives.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  2. #22
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    Unfortunate, but this is just another illustration of the heartlessness of the majority of Internet society. What can you expect, honestly?

  3. #23
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    Put yourself in the shoes of the people watching.

    First of all, you have to be pretty lame to chat with some chebag for hours and hours, I'd think.

    Second, apparently he liked to screw with people, and you knew it. So why would you want to play the fool and call the cops before you were sure something serious was going on?

    Third, if anything this guy was looking for an excuse to off himself.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    I think these types of things unnecessarily place burden onto others. I mean, sorry if I don't want to be thrust suddenly with the burden of another persons life. It's a rather serious obligation. Is it those viewers fault if they didn't know how to react "properly" in such situations. Especially when it's negatively inclined such as a suicide.

    How many people like viewing torture scenes?

    Not too many. That's why it's desensitized for us in movies so we can derive some sense of entertainment out of it. Similarly for horror movies like Saw and Hostel. I remember personally laughing at some of those scenes.

    Was it because I'm a crazy sadistic bastard?

    No it's just that humor and making light of the situations are the only comfortable and natural ways of dealing with such things. Is it those peoples fault because they didn't want to consciously recall the serious negative implications of suicide, that they didn't want to personally experience the harsh nature of life, and be reminded of how suddenly it can be taken from you. I mean it's not something I expect to deal with online. Not even in real life. So pardon me when I either take it as a joke, or try and make it more palatable for me by using humor. I don't get my kicks out of thinking of depressing things, nor am I constantly on the look out for taking the worst possible scenario and experiencing it in all its totality. I'd much rather have an idealized view of the internet. It's more a refuge for me, just like movies and comedy are.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Pancreas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    A great deal of suffering and inhumane treatment results from these invasive judgments about what is going on inside another person.
    This is true, however...

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    This is worsened when these assumptions lead to a desire to punish, especially group punishment and shaming. Why would the act of being a drama queen require the punishment of egging the person on?
    ... you shouldn't assume that these people were trying to punish him. I agree with Aimahn in that probably a number of the people watching treated it as a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    The observers behaved inhumanely regardless of their motives.?
    The observers behaved poorly, perhaps, but not, in my opinion, inhumanely. Given that the guy had been known to threaten to kill himself before and hand't followed through with it, the observers that knew this probably made a snap judgement that this was the same. Not necessarily the best decision ever made, particularly given the circumstances, but not an inhumane decision.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Nillerz's Avatar
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    heh...

  7. #27
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    some kid didn't value his life enough to keep hold of it and shares his misery with the world. there are bigger tragedies in life. and saying the people who watched his suicide are murderers; what about people in 3rd world countries dying of starvation, disease, war and other such attrocities? did we kill them by not helping?

    imo, if the mentally unstable have the desire and willpower to kill themselves then i say let them.
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  8. #28
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancreas View Post
    This is true, however...



    ... you shouldn't assume that these people were trying to punish him. I agree with Aimahn in that probably a number of the people watching treated it as a joke.
    The bottom line is that their motivation is not particularly relevant because it produced the same result either way. In general there is a tendency for groups both online and off to function in this punishment manner. It is a likely element especially if the person had a history of causing disruption, however, you are right to point out that it would be problematic to draw a conclusion about the motivations of anyone involved. We simply can't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pancreas View Post
    The observers behaved poorly, perhaps, but not, in my opinion, inhumanely. Given that the guy had been known to threaten to kill himself before and hand't followed through with it, the observers that knew this probably made a snap judgement that this was the same. Not necessarily the best decision ever made, particularly given the circumstances, but not an inhumane decision.
    Still, that is not an example of a person who is acting in a healthy manner. Such a person appears dysfunctional and needs some type of rehabilitation, the nature of which it would require a professional to diagnose. Either way something is wrong. If you take a moment to imagine yourself in a state of mind where you are ready to kill yourself and you get such a reaction from people online. Even if their motivations were childlike and pure, naivete' can cause horrific suffering. Maybe that is not inhumane, but there should be some word that defines it because it is deeply tragic, the result being equivalent to inhumane acts, and so worth taking seriously enough to find ways to avoid it.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Pancreas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Still, that is not an example of a person who is acting in a healthy manner. Such a person appears dysfunctional and needs some type of rehabilitation, the nature of which it would require a professional to diagnose. Either way something is wrong. If you take a moment to imagine yourself in a state of mind where you are ready to kill yourself and you get such a reaction from people online. Even if their motivations were childlike and pure, naivete' can cause horrific suffering. Maybe that is not inhumane, but there should be some word that defines it because it is deeply tragic, the result being equivalent to inhumane acts, and so worth taking seriously enough to find ways to avoid it.
    I agree that the suicide could, and should, have been avoided. If everyone had stopped for a moment to consider the potential (and in this case very real) gravity of the situation it is probable that the police would have been contacted earlier, and in time to prevent the death. However, given the violence and drama almost normalised by films and TV, the physical distance and psychological detachment due to the internet, the previous false threats of suicide and the sheer number of other people also watching is it really fair to expect people to act? I agree that they should and I also think that those making ‘funny’ comments shouldn’t have.

    I agree that it is tragic. And even if naiveté can result in the same scenario as inhumanity, is it fair to condemn those who should have acted but didn’t as harshly as those who act inhumanely?

  10. #30
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancreas View Post
    I agree that the suicide could, and should, have been avoided. If everyone had stopped for a moment to consider the potential (and in this case very real) gravity of the situation it is probable that the police would have been contacted earlier, and in time to prevent the death. However, given the violence and drama almost normalised by films and TV, the physical distance and psychological detachment due to the internet, the previous false threats of suicide and the sheer number of other people also watching is it really fair to expect people to act? I agree that they should and I also think that those making ‘funny’ comments shouldn’t have.

    I agree that it is tragic. And even if naiveté can result in the same scenario as inhumanity, is it fair to condemn those who should have acted but didn’t as harshly as those who act inhumanely?
    Probably not.

    What is disturbing about the way people act in groups is that these more innocent motivations can quickly spiral into serious violations. I want to say it is markedly different, but when you look at the history of societies it doesn't seem all that new. Those people might have acted innocently, but the people who have committed, or simply watched, other atrocities were also partly innocent in many contexts.

    The word murder in the thread title is probably not the most accurate choice, but my concern is that it really isn't that different from humanity's long history of group floggings whether these be physical or psychological. The problem is that in every case it seems entirely justified at the time by "reasonable" people.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

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