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  1. #121
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    No, it doesn't make them reasonable. It makes them assholes.
    Do you really have issues with ALL 1500 people there. I mean seriously how many people have commited suicide. To me reading this post is a rather, I wouldn't say jovial matter, but not especially serious. There is no massive injustice, I don't seek out injustices every where I go, nor do I invest all of my resources into them as they arise. Holding people to such standards of action is only proving your idealistic rigidity.

    The world doesn't work that way, people die all the time, people are sick and twisted, some mentally ill. Sad things happen, but it is not up to each individual to try and correct all these wrongs when they come across them, It's not even up to them to handle them in an "appropriate" or "nice" manner. This is the real world we're living in after all. I'm sure a couple of comments caused him to make the biggest decision of his life (pun not necessarily intended, but it fits).

    Some people just don't have the level of compassion when it comes to ideals like you. Respect that fact, some people may not have the same detached, critical perspective that I do, I respect that fact everyday. I don't naively wish like a certain Mr.Bluewing that that is the way the world should revolve. I mean it would be nice, it would make my heart feel a little warmer, and subside some of the pent up anger I have when I come across people who are so opposed to my ideals. Those people are at times both sickening and disturbing to me. I choose not to live my life that way because it adds undue stress to it. It is within my abilities to consciously oppose that fact and react in an extremely unhelpful manner and chastise people when they do take things very personally. I choose not to. Others maybe not so much...
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    This is all the more reason why we should take such situations seriously. If one person had acted differently, the outcome could have changed. Sure, this guy is a tool. But, he was important to someone. Even if you don't care about him, you should be mindful of the cascade of negative consequences.
    It's his responsibility. It's not the internet's fault he was manic depressive and suicidal. What do you think the chances of him not killing himself regardless of what people did online? We don't know for sure, but it's my opinion he would have done it eventually anyway.

  3. #123
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Responsibility is rarely a yay or nay proposition. In this case, the situation involves the actions of multiple parties and responsibility is borne in different measure by all parties. The suicide for offing himself so impulsively and the mob for their incitement. Did they do anything illegal? I think not. Ethically wrong? That is obviously so.
    Agreed.

    If I tell you, "You should go kill yourself." This is not ethical. Indeed, it is unethical. If so, then I am responsible for that.
    Responsible for what, contributing to the act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    As for the second part, even if strength comes from the experience of suffering, this does not mean we should celebrate pain and suffering itself.
    Celebrating tragedy does seem a bit off to me, as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Not necessarily. I can sit here and imagine how annoying this kid was, and basically had to be to put himself in the situation he did, and get so many people to egg him on, jokingly or not.

    So, not only can he be held responsible for taking his own life, he can be held responsible for convincing his audience that he was worthless.
    I do believe that the young man was ultimately responsible for taking his own life, but due to his age, and the fact that he chose to reach out publicly about what tends to be a highly private affair, leads me to believe that he was begging for attention and implicitly asking for help.

    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    I think sometimes death is preferable to life. Suicides apparently agree. As do Euthanasia enthusiasts the world over.
    I agree fully with you here.

    And pardon the emomania but I find something wonderfully comforting and in pain/suffering/misery sometimes. And something delicious in destruction.
    I can relate to you in finding comfort in pain/suffering/misery sometimes, because that kinda used to be my home for a long while.

    I am a slight masochist, however.

    And enjoying, or embracing one's own suffering or destruction is a lot different than enjoying or contributing to the suffering and or destruction of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    Now back on topic, persoanlly, I couldn't care less if he "offed" himself. If someone like him came to me, I'd support the decision of suicide.

    Possibly, I don't see anything to be worth lamenting. Althou I don't hold life be it human or not in high regard.
    The fact that people like you exist terrify me, to be honest.

    Your complete lack of empathy is indicative of some kind of sociopathy.

    I truly hope you choose a life of seclusion, for the benefit of mankind.

    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    As for misery- it just a warm cocoon. I may venture to translate this from Ina-esque one day.
    I get this, and I feel this too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    By all means, where did I say that life isn't worth living? Not holding life in high regard does not mean being completely indifferent to it, it just means that in my views the lives of the individuals are easily "replaceable". Althou that viewpoint probably comes with the history of the region I live in.

    And also, why do I myself cling to life? Ambitions, I'm a very ambitious man, my ambitions hold enough drive and interest for me to live several lives. If I didn't have those, I probably would have offed myself long ago.

    As to enjoying destruction, it's probably a side effect of testosterone.
    Your extreme ambition in addition to your blatant disregard for life frightens the hell out of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I am troubled that concern for others seem to be such an onerous burden. I am also troubled that concern is contingent upon arbitrary distinctions such as relationship status. If you have integrity and self-respect, you will be concerned for others. If you have integrity and self-respect, you will identify with others as individuals who are similar to you. You will develop empathy. And, possessing empathy is not just an NF thing, though some NTP's seem to repudiate it as a personal failing.
    QFT!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This still isn't reasonable. You're still expecting people to treat a random stranger with a level of concern that is inconsistent with the audience's investment.
    Ugh!!!

    The audience's investment.... which was?!!?!



    Entertainment, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Incorrect. I am expecting everyone to behave like they possess humanity. The way they would if they were not anonymous and therefore accountable.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Seriously, nobody (even the flippin NFJs) is asking anybody to go join the saints club; all I see here is a charge not to be a jackass. It's pretty daggone simple.
    Agreed, if you are going to be an asshole, be an unactualized one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Some people are assholes, so to act that way to someone they don't care about is reasonable.
    WHAT?!?!?!

    So when a sociopath rapes and kills a four year old girl, this is "reasonable" simply because he was/is a sociopath?!?!?

    No.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I believe that rational adults have the right to kill themselves if they so please, but that many suicides are done so by non-adults, and irrationally, as such was the case in this scenario.

    This boy was 19, he could have gotten *real* help (dissuasion), instead he got motivation (persuasion).
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #124
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    But the behavior of trying to get someone to kill themselves should be allowed in society, right? No actual formal blame? Just seeing where you're at.
    If intent were certain, then formal blame might be an idea worth pursuing, not to be responsible for someone else's suicide but to be responsible for what you say. Remember you are not allowed to yell, "Fire!" in a theater, for example. In this case there are too many things that simply cannot be known. What was the intent of the viewers? Impossible to know.

    The only thing I feel confident in stating is that someone should have said or done something. And, that no one should try to get anyone to kill themselves.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It's his responsibility. It's not the internet's fault he was manic depressive and suicidal. What do you think the chances of him not killing himself regardless of what people did online? We don't know for sure, but it's my opinion he would have done it eventually anyway.
    Again. People are responsible for what THEY do. The viewers participated in this. They were not the cause, but they did not behave ethically.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    WHAT?!?!?!

    So when a sociopath rapes and kills a four year old girl, this is "reasonable" simply because he was/is a sociopath?!?!?

    No.
    I'm sure that's what he meant!

    And what's this newfound disgust you have with suicide all about? Your position on these matters is anything but predictable...

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum.../8555-not.html

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Again. People are responsible for what THEY do. The viewers participated in this. They were not the cause, but they did not behave ethically.
    But what did they do, exactly? What was the net effect of their participation? That's not even certain. Seems a bit over-reactive to blame them for another man's decision without the key information.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It's his responsibility.
    Yes. Thank you.

    It's not commendable for others to have egged on his suicide, but ultimately he is accountable for his own actions.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    But what did they do, exactly? What was the net effect of their participation? That's not even certain. Seems a bit over-reactive to blame them for another man's decision without the key information.
    I am not blaming them for the outcome. I am not blaming them for the outcome. Repeat.

    I am blaming them for their failure to behave in a responsible manner with respect to egging someone on about suicide. Now, it is possible that every one of these people just thought he was joking, but this is why we take such things so seriously even when we are 99% certain someone is joking. Some things you just do not joke about despite the risk being so small.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #130
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    So basically you're arguing philosophically?

    The end product was his death. Does it matter the facts that led to it, do you think it would somehow be averted if the audience decided to throw a pity party. I'm actually not getting why people are really investing so much time into an "impractical" conversation.

    He died, he had mental issues, other people outside of his famed 1500 had access to him personally. Apparently they didn't care enough. Unless you're arguing that his audience: his blog subscription that cared deeply and passionately about him, therefore were obligated to all act in good faith...

    wait. Are you arguing that the 1500 had a greater impact than the other serious forces that precluded this little "showing."

    That it was the deciding factor?

    Is this just a glorified case study on ethics?
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

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