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  1. #61
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That is laughable. You clearly are not familiar with big-city Democratic politics.
    You leave Mayor Daley alone... he can make the dead rise and vote and I don't think that you want zombies on your doorstep do you?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #62
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That is laughable. You clearly are not familiar with big-city Democratic politics.
    You will have to present a little more than this to convince me Republicans don't tend to be more corrupt than Democrats.

    I wonder if there is a decent study out there comparing frequency of reported Republican scandals to Democratic scandals.

  3. #63
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I don't know why anyone thinks that one party is significantly more corrupt than the other. If they were, then I highly doubt the party of lesser corruption could really compete.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I don't know why anyone thinks that one party is significantly more corrupt than the other. If they were, then I highly doubt the party of lesser corruption could really compete.
    Hahaha...considering the organization, leadership, and vision of the Democratic party in the last 20 years, you may have made his point for him Two charismatic, intelligent candidates in Clinton and Obama have covered all manner of Democratic party bumbling because they were able to win despite the party.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  5. #65
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Hey, I just posted this patriotic poem in the "poems that moved you" thread, but I think it should go here, too, because it's relevant to the initial discussion (the one about what it means to be patriotic).

    Quote Originally Posted by Langston Hughes
    Let America be America Again

    Let America be America again.
    Let it be the dream it used to be.
    Let it be the pioneer on the plain
    Seeking a home where he himself is free.

    (America never was America to me.)

    Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed--
    Let it be that great strong land of love
    Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
    That any man be crushed by one above.

    (It never was America to me.)

    O, let my land be a land where Liberty
    Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,
    But opportunity is real, and life is free,
    Equality is in the air we breathe.

    (There's never been equality for me,
    Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")

    Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?
    And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?

    I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
    I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.
    I am the red man driven from the land,
    I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek--
    And finding only the same old stupid plan
    Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.

    I am the young man, full of strength and hope,
    Tangled in that ancient endless chain
    Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!
    Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!
    Of work the men! Of take the pay!
    Of owning everything for one's own greed!

    I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.
    I am the worker sold to the machine.
    I am the Negro, servant to you all.
    I am the people, humble, hungry, mean--
    Hungry yet today despite the dream.
    Beaten yet today--O, Pioneers!
    I am the man who never got ahead,
    The poorest worker bartered through the years.

    Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream
    In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
    Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
    That even yet its mighty daring sings
    In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
    That's made America the land it has become.
    O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas
    In search of what I meant to be my home--
    For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,
    And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,
    And torn from Black Africa's strand I came
    To build a "homeland of the free."

    The free?

    Who said the free? Not me?
    Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
    The millions shot down when we strike?
    The millions who have nothing for our pay?
    For all the dreams we've dreamed
    And all the songs we've sung
    And all the hopes we've held
    And all the flags we've hung,
    The millions who have nothing for our pay--
    Except the dream that's almost dead today.

    O, let America be America again--
    The land that never has been yet--
    And yet must be--the land where every man is free.
    The land that's mine--the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME--
    Who made America,
    Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
    Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
    Must bring back our mighty dream again.

    Sure, call me any ugly name you choose--
    The steel of freedom does not stain.
    From those who live like leeches on the people's lives,
    We must take back our land again,
    America!

    O, yes,
    I say it plain,
    America never was America to me,
    And yet I swear this oath--
    America will be!

    Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
    The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
    We, the people, must redeem
    The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
    The mountains and the endless plain--
    All, all the stretch of these great green states--
    And make America again!
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #66
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    ^ I like that one... and always link it with I Hear America Singing from Leaves of Grass
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #67
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    ^ I like that one... and always link it with I Hear America Singing from Leaves of Grass
    Hughes wrote in response to Whitman quite a bit... and directly responds to "I Hear America Singing" in I, Too, Sing America. (I love Whitman too.)
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #68
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    awesome as well!

    Also, I was impressed by how POSITIVE about the country and the people who have lived here that Obama was in his book... it kind of warmed the cockles of my heart
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #69
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one
    So can we say that overwhelming majority of world population is not thinking straight?

    I think we can, and that the person must have many properties that he/she does not starts to think in this direction.
    I mean this is accepted all over the world and no one is questioning the sanity behind entire thing.
    Even if that were true, what would you be able to do about it? Change the foundations of belief and thought for every person on Earth (actually, it could be strategically targeted, reducing the necessary number, but still would be a huge number of people)?

    From your post, it sounds like you are asking the general question, "Why do people die for such arbitrary things as 'countries'?", which is related to your recent thread in this forum.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  10. #70
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Even if that were true, what would you be able to do about it? Change the foundations of belief and thought for every person on Earth
    Just because nothing can't be done about it does't mean that this is right.

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