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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    +1

    If Obama was a Republican, do you think he would still have won ?
    He couldn't be the same type of person and a Republican. Democrat candidates have always tried to appeal to voters through personality. Republicans through values and principles. That's generally why Democrats appeal more to younger voters.
    I don't wanna!

  2. #42
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    The problem with SOME charismatic people is that they can coast through life without the need to actually formulate sound plans. All they need to do is convince people that their plans have merit. The lack of practice often leaves these people lacking in real ability.

  3. #43
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    The problem with SOME charismatic people is that they can coast through life without the need to actually formulate sound plans. All they need to do is convince people that their plans have merit. The lack of practice often leaves these people lacking in real ability.
    I've met a lot of incredibly competent charismatic people. Not all of them are flakes. If he worked hard enough to become President, he's got substance.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I've met a lot of incredibly competent charismatic people. Not all of them are flakes. If he worked hard enough to become President, he's got substance.
    That's why I said "some". Great damage can result from an incompetent egomaniac who has enough charisma to get into a position of power. (I'm not suggesting that Obama is one............yet)

  5. #45
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    He couldn't be the same type of person and a Republican. Democrat candidates have always tried to appeal to voters through personality. Republicans through values and principles.
    Obama might not appeal to your values and principals, but he does appeal to mine. You undoubtedly find my values and principals to be offensive or wrong-headed, and I really don't feel charged at the moment with the task of changing your mind. But communitarianism is one of my values for sure, along with equity and diplomacy. Barack Obama appeals to values and principles--just not yours.

    *note below: It was noted that "communitarian" is a better term for my beliefs than "collectivist."

    And if Sarah Palin wasn't an attempt to appeal to voters through personality, I don't know what ever could be. Did she talk about some values and principles? Sure. But that political choice was clearly about personality primarily. Bush 2 was also the guy who most of America might "want to have a beer with." Did he talk about some values and principles? Yes--but many people voted for him because they thought he related to the common man. The Republican party does engage in this kind of politicking, and you saying otherwise reveals a partisan blindness.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    But collectivism is one of my values for sure, along with equity and diplomacy.
    You are a communist idealist, like Obama, if you weren't aware of that. So, your support of him was rather logical all along.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    You are a communist idealist, like Obama, if you weren't aware of that. So, your support of him was rather logical all along.
    "Communist" is a charged word, really. I am really just your run-of-the-mill liberal Democrat who tends to support larger government. But yes, I believe that my support of him makes plenty of sense given my values.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #48
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    "Communist" is a charged word, really.
    um, you might want to change your own word usage to "communitarian," then. Collectivism is closely associated with communist atrocities, such as in the collectivization of Ukrainian farmland.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    um, you might want to change your own word usage to "communitarian," then. Collectivism is closely associated with communist atrocities, such as in the collectivization of Ukrainian farmland.
    Yeah, okay. "Collectivism" is a term that can describe a spectrum of attitudes. I believe that interdependence is a very important and that excessive focus on individualism is harmful. But I would not subscribe to a broad and categorical denial of personal property. "Communitarian" does seem to be a better term. It is new to me! Thanks for dropping the knowledge.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #50
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    You are a communist idealist, like Obama, if you weren't aware of that. So, your support of him was rather logical all along.
    MacCarthysm is not dead.

    The more I read from republican voters here, the way they see communists and communism everywhere (even in Obama), the more I feel like I was trapped into another dimension, whose time quadrant would be stuck around the mid 50'es.

    It would be time for those guys to realize that the Berlin wall has been teared down some twenty years ago.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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