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  1. #31
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Jesus christ... What's wrong with charisma? As long as he doesn't use it to do wrong. At this point nobody knows anything about that part, except that he's leaning towards being a socialist. If socialism is a bad thing or not is philosophical.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #32
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Jesus christ... What's wrong with charisma? As long as he doesn't use it to do wrong. At this point nobody knows anything about that part, except that he's leaning towards being a socialist. If socialism is a bad thing or not is philosophical.
    Pssh. You should be aware how harmful charisma is in a leader. Should be avoided at all costs.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Pssh. You should be aware how harmful charisma is in a leader. Should be avoided at all costs.
    I don't think the argument is necessarily if a leader should or shouldn't have charisma, or even if its a valuable trait. I think in my mind the argument lies in how you as an individual react to charisma.

    I think the cause and effect in terms of voting is pretty evident. When you get into the grounds of how that vote (and by extension the charisma that caused you to vote) has relation to his term and actions as a president, I think the benefits of charisma are a lot more diluted.

    Thats why I think it is necessary to at least have other considerations than just his pure charisma and its obvious and immediate benefits. If you think that is still good reason enough, how so?
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  4. #34
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    I don't think the argument is necessarily if a leader should or shouldn't have charisma, or even if its a valuable trait. I think in my mind the argument lies in how you as an individual react to charisma.
    Yup! Of course, that's a good thing too - it's a horrible thing when a leader can't motivate people to do things.

  5. #35
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Pssh. You should be aware how harmful charisma is in a leader. Should be avoided at all costs.
    I think that a leader without charisma is nothing. Let's just hope he's got some intelligence, know-how, diplomacy and other things desired. The rest will hopefully be taken care of by hyper-intelligent advisors, like his speech writer, Jon Favreau.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  6. #36
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    I think that a leader without charisma is nothing. Let's just hope he's got some intelligence, know-how, diplomacy and other things desired. The rest will hopefully be taken care of by hyper-intelligent advisors, like his speech writer, Jon Favreau.
    Seems like all of those things got him to where he is. I have concern over where he is going with his abilities, but I find it strange that people are complaining that he is, essentially, "too good of a leader".

    You can take almost any list of leadership competencies and he'd rank high across the board. It seems remarkably strange how that gets turned into bad press.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Leadership competencies translate somewhat differently in terms of presidency. I think that it isn't as easy to see how those traits translate directly to the job when compared to something like a CEO, sports coach, manager, teacher... etc

    I don't think they're negative traits at all, in fact I think they're exceptional ones but still to me that doesn't equate as well as I'd like to a good president.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  8. #38
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firelie View Post
    Have you ever watched him speak?

    He's the sort of person that most people shut up to listen to. The crowd quiets, you can practically see them hanging on every word, believing in what he says... or maybe that's just people around here. I went to his rally back in May (during the primaries), and in a crowd of 75,000 people, that's how it was.

    I will admit, he made me feel...*shudder*...patriotic.

    Yes I did.


    I am asking not because of political reasons but because of psychological reasons.

    To me someone that is rated as charismatic is not charismatic at all.
    It looks that I miss this aspect of a person without even trying and I think that I know why.

  9. #39
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Well you're essentially saying the same thing I am, so just leave it.
    Not at all.

    You said "The facts are the facts, and no matter what invested interest I have in the said topic, I will always accept what the facts are. THEN, I form my own connections and opinions on the topic based on what I know", and I totally disagree.

    The facts that are significant to us are only the facts that we can rationalize, we can understand. And that means: only the facts that we can integrate into our own pattern of reality. Other facts are just ignored, whether we want it or not. Thus, our own pattern of reality is always more important that what is "real" (in the theoretical sense), the pattern always gets first in terms of priority.

    To be objective doesn't mean you are able to perceive "facts" more accurately than your neighbours, but that you are able to foresee different patterns of reality and analyze their inner differences. This means you must first be aware of the existence of these patterns, that you must be aware of your own limits. And then only could you perceive facts with more precision, with a renewed depth.

    ---

    In your case, I'd say that you invert how reality manifests itself to us. And thus, your so-called rationality is nothing but a comfortable illusion. It's an illusion you like because it gives you a confidence you would otherwise probably lack: it's called an ideology.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #40
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    I think that a leader without charisma is nothing.
    Indeed.

    Charisma is very important for an elected leader because there will always be a symbolic duty associated with their functions.

    And the effects of symbols are real, at least for society.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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