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  1. #21
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    This thread tells me that I'm very glad I don't have much charisma!

  2. #22
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    But the fact is that Obama is anything but a shallow being (contrary to his predecessor ).

    He's very complex, and quite obviously very smart (someone who obtains his doctorate at Harvard with "magna cum laude" can't be completely dumb), and that's interesting.
    Yes, but again, you're just referring to his personal qualities. Not his policies.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    But the fact is that Obama is anything but a shallow being (contrary to his predecessor ).

    He's very complex, and quite obviously very smart (someone who obtains his doctorate at Harvard with "magna cum laude" can't be completely dumb), and that's interesting.
    I think it is somewhat a matter of perspective. I think we are all pretty intelligent here and by virtue of being on this site go out of our way a little to obtain information.

    I consistently interact with people who really don't do that AT ALL and have to endure a number of ridiculous discussions that can't even be described as political in nature. I don't even think that some people even know his history all that much other than he went to Harvard (if he wasn't black and it wasn't Harvard i'm not even sure they'd know that).

    I actually had a really laughable (so ridiculous it was funny) and pathetic discussion with that same girl and a couple other friends and it was basically just people projecting biases. You could tell they were just reciting things they've heard from other authorities, going completely by their own biases, and mentioning little buzzwords.

    I'm not saying that a majority of the public is that reckless and inconsiderate with their votes, but sometimes it makes you step back and wonder just what thought processes are going on.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  4. #24
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Are you aware of the second part of my sentance? Read it again.
    I've read it. This doesn't change anything.

    I fail to see any "facts" when I read you. Frankly. You do not seem very rational at all, but maybe that's my own bias talking.

    You would begin to be really objective if your arguments could be a bit less "one sided", if you could introduce a real complexity, a real depth into them...
    Objectivity begins to appear only when you are able to simultaneously understand and analyze dissimilar views, different kinds of subjectivities.
    It's not necessarily linked to "facts", but on the way you can interpret them through the intra-subjective process.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #25
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yes, but again, you're just referring to his personal qualities. Not his policies.
    We were talking about something called "charisma", not his policies.
    To analyze the first, you have to analyze who Obama really is (as a human being) rather than his political agenda.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #26
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Can someone explain to me why is Obama charismatic?


    I am not saying with certainty that he is not.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I've read it. This doesn't change anything.

    I fail to see any "facts" when I read you. Frankly. You do not seem very rational at all, but maybe that's my own bias talking.

    You would begin to be really objective if your arguments could be a bit less "one sided", if you could introduce a real complexity, a real depth into them...
    Objectivity begins to appear only when you are able to simultaneously understand and analyze dissimilar views, different kinds of subjectivities.
    It's not necessarily linked to "facts", but on the way you can interpret them through the intra-subjective process.
    What I said and meant is that I look and review the facts as first thing. The facts are the facts, and no matter what invested interest I have in the said topic, I will always accept what the facts are. THEN, I form my own connections and opinions on the topic based on what I know. My opinions are of course subjective in nature. I.e., When I speak my opinions on this forum (whether I have the time to present all the facts and evidence themselves, to you, is another matter) it is because I wish to express the derived total picture formed by the facts I know, a picture that may not exist for some, either because they don't know all the factors involved or they simply have a different view and opinion. Hence, the views I express are subjective based on an objective analysis of existing facts. Having objective opinions is very nearly oxymoronic.

    Quite simply, I am severely limited in my ability (in time and energy) to display here the facts that comprise my opinions. Half the time I'm limited to expressing my opinions without being able to offer the comprehensive information to properly back them up. Unless it is a direct quote, or specific numbers and figures, most of what I talk about would admittedly take quite a chunk of time to source. In my laziness I wont EXPECT that you trust me when I say the facts backing my opinions exist, but I would ASK that you trust the views I form and the facts they are derived from. This request, of course, is largely dependant on the respect and notoriety I garner on this forum. If the views I express have a factual basis to them, then I wholeheartedly expect that it will be pointed out on an equally or greater factual basis the error in my thinking.

  8. #28
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    What I said and meant is that I look and review the facts as first thing. The facts are the facts, and no matter what invested interest I have in the said topic, I will always accept what the facts are. THEN, I form my own connections and opinions on the topic based on what I know. My opinions are of course subjective in nature. I.e., When I speak my opinions on this forum (whether I have the time to present all the facts and evidence themselves, to you, is another matter) it is because I wish to express the derived total picture formed by the facts I know, a picture that may not exist for some, either because they don't know all the factors involved or they simply have a different view and opinion. Hence, the views I express are subjective based on an objective analysis of existing facts. Having objective opinions is very nearly oxymoronic.
    Well, confusing several political philosophies such as socialism, communism, marxism, social-democratism and social-liberalism is not a "fact" but either a proof of deep ignorance, either a severe bias (if done on purpose).

    Again, I fail to notice which facts you are really refering to. Everything you present to us is deeply one-sided, predictable, and hence, quite uninteresting. And again, this proves once more that there is never such a thing as a "plain fact", but rather an "interpretation of facts". Always.
    We can only perceive reality through the model of reality we are constantly building in our minds. But we should not confuse the two.

    That's simple epistemology, you know.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #29
    Magical Firelie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Can someone explain to me why is Obama charismatic?


    I am not saying with certainty that he is not.
    Have you ever watched him speak?

    He's the sort of person that most people shut up to listen to. The crowd quiets, you can practically see them hanging on every word, believing in what he says... or maybe that's just people around here. I went to his rally back in May (during the primaries), and in a crowd of 75,000 people, that's how it was.

    I will admit, he made me feel...*shudder*...patriotic.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post

    Again, I fail to notice which facts you are really refering to. Everything you present to us is deeply one-sided, predictable, and hence, quite uninteresting. And again, this proves once more that there is never such a thing as a "plain fact", but rather an "interpretation of facts". Always.
    We can only perceive reality through the model of reality we are constantly building in our minds. But we should not confuse the two.

    That's simple epistemology, you know.
    Well you're essentially saying the same thing I am, so just leave it.

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