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Thread: Prop 8

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Yes you do have something against gay people, I hate it how people say this bullshit. If you support something that takes away rights from a certain group of people, you have something against them, it's very simple.
    I do have to take issue with this part. There is a big difference between taking a right away from someone, and declaring that people have (and, thus, always have had) a right that was unacknowledged before. This is one of several reasons why I think the State (government in the abstract) should get out of marriage. Still, a ballot initiative was probably the correct way to settle this issue in the short time, federally. A FEDERAL ban on gay marriage would be outrageous.
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  2. #32
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    I don't get what you're objecting to. Gays Had the right to marry, now they don't, rights were Taken.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    No. Gay marriage had not been being taught to children while it was legal.
    As much as I hate to back Risen up. It is being taught in Massachusettes

    Yet a review of public records filed with the First District Court of Appeal in Boston shows these same organizations who claim our statement is a lie fought to make it true in Massachusetts. Specifically, they fought to ensure that gay marriage be taught in Massachusetts public schools, even over the objection of parents who sought an "opt out" for their children. Gay marriage was legalized by Massachusetts courts in 2003.
    Proposition 8: Who's Really Lying? - MarketWatch

    While California is known as a bellweather state, Massachussetts is a pretty influential state as well.

    While I can guarantee that 70%+ of California support rights of gays to marry, when Massachussets gays pushed for gay marriage to be taught to children, yes, the fear of that can spread to California is definitely there.

    The leading gays of Massachussets made a poor decision, bottom line. Its sad to see people who were already married in CA have to go through this.

    Gays in California could have come out and said they do not support teaching of gay marriage to children in CA. But I never remember hearing anything like that. Its very strange to me, because supposedly gays believe that its a genetic lifestyle. So teaching it shouldn't matter.

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    Because Massachusettes = California.... riiiightt..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Because Massachusettes = California.... riiiightt..
    Well California is more of a bellweather state than Massachussets. But its not just one way.

    Seriously though, why didn't California gays just come out and say they don't want to teach it to schoolchildren? I mean, those ads were on for a very long time. Its not like there was no time to make a quick commercial.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    Gays in California could have come out and said they do not support teaching of gay marriage to children in CA. But I never remember hearing anything like that. Its very strange to me, because supposedly gays believe that its a genetic lifestyle. So teaching it shouldn't matter.
    If the goal is social acceptance, then teaching it would make sense. I would say it being genetic is a very good reason to teach it.

    However, there is insufficient evidence to strongly collaborate the genetic view directly... it's more that it is a latent part of the human condition. That's what people don't want their children to hear.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Proposition 8... California (from wiki)

    If passed, the amendment would override the ruling in In re Marriage Cases that struck down both the 1977 law and Proposition 22 for being unconstitutional.[24] The Constitution, as amended, would add a new section (Section 7.5) to Article I, placing it between the state Equal Protection clause and nondiscrimination in business and the professions. This new section would read:

    Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.[17][25][26]

    Proposition 102 ... Arizona (from wiki)

    The text of Proposition 102 states:
    Only a union of one man and one woman shall be valid or recognized as a marriage in this state.[1]

    As I suspected, niether one of these is a BAN on anything, yet people (and the media) continue to falsely refer to these amendments that way, because when you word it as "ban on gay marriage" it has less support.

    Both of those propositions simply say that state law will be in line with the federal Defense of Marriage Act which was signed into law by President Clinton, and as far as I understand is still current law.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    Well California is more of a bellweather state than Massachussets. But its not just one way.

    Seriously though, why didn't California gays just come out and say they don't want to teach it to schoolchildren? I mean, those ads were on for a very long time. Its not like there was no time to make a quick commercial.


    you mean this?

    [youtube=CIL7PUl24hE] No on Prop 8 [/youtube]

    And still, after likely seeing this commercial (they were on all the time), people still voted for it.

    Hooray religion in government?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Concerning Prop 8 and similar measures: as far as I am concerned, the biggest mess is the intertwining between the legal and religious concepts.

    Marriage is a religious institution and should be handled exclusively by the church.

    Civil unions should be handled by the state, just as any other contract (specifically, a life long contract between two consenting adults)
    Yes. I don't support law-based gay marriage, but I can't say I support law-based straight marriage either. Civil unions are legally useful though, and should be permitted for teh gays and straights alike.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    you mean this?

    [youtube=CIL7PUl24hE] No on Prop 8 [/youtube]

    And still, after likely seeing this commercial (they were on all the time), people still voted for it.

    Hooray religion in government?
    The same people who voted for it, would not support the teaching of the bible in schools.

    It DID happen in Massachussets though. It DID. It was taught to schoolchildren in Massachussets. California gays should have come out and said "We just want to marry, not teach it to kids like Massachussets did". That would have swayed people.

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