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Thread: Prop 8

  1. #321
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    In one of my classes the teacher passed at tax complaint forms to send into the government saying not to exempt the morman church as they were involved in the campaign and lobbied. she hopes that if enough people complain something will happen, and maybe right wingers will quit trying to mix church and state (haha like that's ever gonna happen)
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  2. #322
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Get the state out of marriage, seriously.
    Marriage is in part a contract governing property and custody. That suggestion is unserious.

    To the OP: No constitution, state or federal, protects a right to any sort of marriage. We have no right to legally wed our congenital counterpart, our roommate, our horse, or any combination; rather, states recognize unions as codified. If state populations wish to define marriage multiply, they can and should through legislation or plebiscite. Judges or -- God help us, mayors -- should not promulgate laws for them without risking a fait accompli like Proposition 8.

  3. #323
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Marriage is in part a contract governing property and custody. That suggestion is unserious.
    It's completely serious. Get rid of legal "marriage," and make everything a civil union. Make marriage between the couple and whichever minister/priest/rabbi/shaman they choose. If a church doesn't want to marry gays, they don't have to do it. Make the government simply sign off once they run the background check stuff.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    It's completely serious. Get rid of legal "marriage," and make everything a civil union. Make marriage between the couple and whichever minister/priest/rabbi/shaman they choose. If a church doesn't want to marry gays, they don't have to do it. Make the government simply sign off once they run the background check stuff.
    I agree . That's exactly what I've been saying. Marriage shouldn't be recognized through government, it should be recognized through churches. When the gov needs to define and base policies on the relationship of two people, they should have a system of defining it as a civil union that does not have anything to do with churches and marriage. Unfortunately, that's a system overhaul that I doubt will ever happen, and I somehow doubt the gay community would be focused enough to even try going that direction. Honestly, I think most of them just hate religion, and want to beat it to the ground anyway; even if what they want can be achieved through other means. Thus, the war continues...

  5. #325
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    It's completely serious. Get rid of legal "marriage," and make everything a civil union. Make marriage between the couple and whichever minister/priest/rabbi/shaman they choose. If a church doesn't want to marry gays, they don't have to do it. Make the government simply sign off once they run the background check stuff.
    This is a nugget of Mercury's anti-government philosophy that I endorse.
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  6. #326
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    This is a nugget of Mercury's anti-government philosophy that I endorse.
    I am not anti-government. I am anti-most of what the government does. It has a role in modern society.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #327
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    its northern parts of orange county, and northern parts of la county north of the san fernando valley

    meaning, if you leave the actual city of Los Angeles, and head north or south, you will run into the fires.

    also those areas are traditionally more republican too. im not sure what you are implying, but some people i know had to evacuate. you should probably pray for them if you really are christian. its also probably best to worry about one's own day of judgement.
    You know darned well what I was saying, because the basis of the joke was a comparison between LA county and Sodom and Gomorrah.

    But it was only a joke, not a serious comment.

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You know darned well what I was saying, because the basis of the joke was a comparison between LA county and Sodom and Gomorrah.

    But it was only a joke, not a serious comment.
    uh, well the comparison as a joke doesn't even make that much sense, exactly for the reasons I provided. Unless you consider making a bad comparison a joke in itself.

  9. #329
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Marriage shouldn't be recognized through government, it should be recognized through churches. When the gov needs to define and base policies on the relationship of two people, they should have a system of defining it as a civil union that does not have anything to do with churches and marriage.
    As a general practice, that is what I'd like to see. Let churches control what they can control... and no more; and let the gov control what IT needs to control. This particular issue is not really about gays wanted to be "approved" in the eyes of a particular denom (although there is fighting in some denoms over that particular issue); they want legal rights and social rights that do not diminish them as second-class.

    Unfortunately, that's a system overhaul that I doubt will ever happen, and I somehow doubt the gay community would be focused enough to even try going that direction. Honestly, I think most of them just hate religion, and want to beat it to the ground anyway; even if what they want can be achieved through other means. Thus, the war continues...
    This comment sort of negates the insight you had in the first part.

    Don't speculate on what gay people do and don't want.

    First of all, I know many gay Christians who love God just as much as any evangelical. If you went to their churches, you honestly couldn't tell that it was a "gay" church from listening to the prayers and hearing people's hearts. They sang the same music; they searched the same scriptures; they submitted to God the same way an evangelical would; they prayed from the same heart.

    Second of all, when you've victimized by religion your whole life and felt put down as a second-class citizen, put down in society, lost jobs, not had your relationships considered "real," can't go to an older denom because you can't talk openly about the people you love and are committed to, compared to pedophiles and "animal lovers" by people who have never MET you, been told you can't adopt children because you'd be crappy parents because you're gay, been accused of always having an agenda by a religion with an obvious agenda even if you just want to live your life and be left alone... and often all in the name of "God" ...

    ...well, hell, I am willing to give people some leeway in that area.

    ironically, this is what endeared me to the gay church I visited. They acknowledged how they felt oppressed by "God-fearing Christians"... and yet they still prayed for them and prayed for hearts that would be open to forgiving and serving the regular "Christian" community rather than being bitter. That's the heart of Jesus. Pretty spiritual, I think.

    So get to know a variety of gay people before you start getting stuck on ideas like this.
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  10. #330
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    uh, well the comparison as a joke doesn't even make that much sense, exactly for the reasons I provided. Unless you consider making a bad comparison a joke in itself.
    Sense?

    It's humor. Don't overanalyze.

    Or am I saying this to the wrong person?

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