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Thread: Prop 8

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    So that would nullify the gay marriages that have already taken place? This should end up in the Supreme Court. I hope that it won't take as long for this to be recognized as a breach of constitutional rights as it took for interracial marriage to be recognized. From what I have read the language used in both cases is similar. It is surprising to me that after so much has been accomplished in civil rights how strongly people are still against gay marriage.
    That shouldn't be possible, constitutionally. That is the definition of ex post facto. Of course, the United States hasn't been great on this the last thirty years or so (see: Lautenberg laws, Adam Walsh Act, etc.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    So that would nullify the gay marriages that have already taken place? This should end up in the Supreme Court. I hope that it won't take as long for this to be recognized as a breach of constitutional rights as it took for interracial marriage to be recognized. From what I have read the language used in both cases is similar. It is surprising to me that after so much has been accomplished in civil rights how strongly people are still against gay marriage.

    Honestly, I think they will deal with it as a breach of the constitution. They already did when they overturned the ban to begin with.

    ----------------------------

    First, the court held that gays and lesbians, like everyone else, enjoy a “fundamental right” to marry under the constitution’s due process and privacy clauses. A “fundamental right” is one the government can’t take away from anyone without a compelling reason. Freedom of religion, free expression, and voting are other fundamental rights. California’s is the first state supreme court to recognize the fundamental right of gays and lesbians to marry, according to Lambda Legal.

    Second, the court held that by permitting heterosexuals to marry the person of their choice, but denying gays and lesbians that same right, prop 22 violated the California constitution’s “equal protection” clause. The equal protection clause forbids the government from treating “similarly situated” citizens differently without some reason. How compelling that reason has to be depends on the right at issue, and who’s being deprived of it. If the right is “fundamental,” or the unequal treatment is based on a “suspect classification,” the court must apply what’s known as “strict scrutiny” in deciding whether the law is constitutional.

    In its marriage decision, the California supreme court held that Prop. 22 qualified for strict scrutiny on both grounds.

    First, the court ruled that the law impeded the fundamental right to marry. Second, the court recognized that Prop. 22 harmed gays and lesbians while leaving everyone else alone, and then held that sexual orientation was a “suspect classification,” deeming gays and lesbians worthy of the same protections afforded to other marginalized groups such as African-Americans and women that have historically suffered discrimination. The idea behind suspect classifications, sometimes called “suspect classes” or “protected classes,” is simple. If a statute harms members of these protected groups more than others, there’s a suspicion of discriminatory intent, which binds the courts to scrutinize that law strictly. Long story short, statutes almost never survive the lens of “strict scrutiny,” and Prop. 22 was no exception.

  3. #283
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    this thread just makes me realize i dunno any real lesbians.

    i mean, i think that would be pretty cool to know some lesbians. i mean like, its so fashionable for girls to hang around gay guys, why not for straight guys to have some lesbian friends?

    that would be hilarious. me reassuring my gf that its okay to hang out with girl X because after all, she's lesbian. hahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    So that would nullify the gay marriages that have already taken place?
    Actually, in the general coverage, what I saw was that the marriages that were legalized would still be valid. And the pro-Prop 8 people said they wouldn't bother to pursue those marriages and try to negate them.

    It is surprising to me that after so much has been accomplished in civil rights how strongly people are still against gay marriage.
    My assess: It's the "ick" factor (fueled partly by preference, partly by religion) driving the legal and political and social arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    this thread just makes me realize i dunno any real lesbians. i mean, i think that would be pretty cool to know some lesbians. i mean like, its so fashionable for girls to hang around gay guys, why not for straight guys to have some lesbian friends?
    You can go find a lesbian bar/club and hang out, you'll meet a lot.

    I also am building some friendships with lesbian couples just from attending an MCC church at the moment.

    that would be hilarious. me reassuring my gf that its okay to hang out with girl X because after all, she's lesbian. hahaha
    yeah. Nice cover. Just don't seduce her to the dark [straight] side, or your gf will kill you!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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    I wonder how many people voted incorrectly. The wording was confusing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I wonder how many people voted incorrectly. The wording was confusing.
    I wonder how much of that is purposeful

    We had a question on our local ballot: "Should the township incur a long-term debt that <question goes on and on for a whole paragraph>?"

    The question was so long that it was very hard to understand, and it was also worded in a way that was negative, leading one to wonder what the need was since we hadn't heard much about it before we went in to vote.

    As it was, "yes" still got 62% for this question; but how you phrase questions can screw up people who are expected it to be phrased in the opposite way, and it can also lend a particular slant to the question and taint the answers as well.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You can go find a lesbian bar/club and hang out, you'll meet a lot.

    I also am building some friendships with lesbian couples just from attending an MCC church at the moment.



    yeah. Nice cover. Just don't seduce her to the dark [straight] side, or your gf will kill you!
    hahahaha!

    yeah, i guess i just thought it would kinda chic, you know? asking for them for advice on my clubbing clothes, relationship advice, bragging about having a lesbian buddy to my hollywood oriented friends... etc... HAHA

    well i asked her if she would even let me live with a lesbian roommate when i started renting a room out... she said no. cus her friend who was lesbian, got a bf all of a sudden one day. and she says one day who knows what might happen...

    i actually know some girls on the east coast, who pretend to be lesbian bc they get bothered by random perverted guys a lot... and they wanted to be left alone...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    ...i actually know some girls on the east coast, who pretend to be lesbian bc they get bothered by random perverted guys a lot... and they wanted to be left alone...
    You'd be surprised. Same reasons some women pretend to be male when they go online, it's just easier.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You'd be surprised. Same reasons some women pretend to be male when they go online, it's just easier.
    yea, i could imagine, all the constant perverted barrage of sex requests, fetishizing, serious grooming to turn into some sex rag , etc... (hear stories and I have childhood friends who work in the LAPD Child Pornography Unit.)

    yeah girls from overseas too, tell me that they definitely have to be more careful of what they wear, because they feel less safe here than back home... where they wouldn't have to worry as much...

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