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Thread: Prop 8

  1. #241
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    The positive side to this is that it will bring the topic of bigotry into focus. The anti-gay position will not withstand logical scrutiny.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Honestly, I question whether there should be legal benefits of marriage at all (I've heard arguments for the benefits, and I get it--I'm just not sure that I agree), but as long as straight couples are given recognition through such benefits, gay couples should be given the same recognition. Anything else is clearly discrimination.
    I don't think there should be benefits to marriage. I think any benefits that would come with marriage should come with guardianship of children. Of course, as far as incentives goes for supporting the right demographics of having kids, that's a pretty bad idea. But in the moral sense, that's what I think. The practical side of me thinks that kids should have an incremental advantage for taxation, such that high income earners get much higher discounts for having children than those that make less. However, that won't be a very popular, or perhaps, moral view.

    Regardless, I fail to see why my wife and I, who plan on having no children/family and will likely be early retirees and such, should have any material benefit from what is meant to support family units.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    The positive side to this is that it will bring the topic of bigotry into focus. The anti-gay position will not withstand logical scrutiny.
    If that were the case you could scrutinize and defeat us right now on this forum. But you can't.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    The positive side to this is that it will bring the topic of bigotry into focus. The anti-gay position will not withstand logical scrutiny.
    That's a bit premature, isn't it? Have you worked out all the logical ramifications pro- and con-?

    None of us is master of all reason... not even the INTPs.

    But don't tell them that.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    If that were the case you could scrutinize and defeat us right now on this forum. But you can't.
    Present a non religious argument why discrimination against gays is a good thing and I will refute it.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    That's a bit premature, isn't it? Have you worked out all the logical ramifications pro- and con-?
    Have you worked out all the ramifications of being against racial discrimination?

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Have you worked out all the ramifications of being against racial discrimination?
    No.

    I have arrived at a point of view with which I am comfortable... but I would never argue that it's the only reasonable point of view. There are a lot of people in the world who are smarter than me, and many who have more credible perspectives.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    If that were the case you could scrutinize and defeat us right now on this forum. But you can't.
    Interesting. Who is "us"?

    Also, you have yet to present a non subjective based 'rationalization' for why you feel homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I said feel on purpose. Logically, there's no basis to deny gays basic fundamental rights.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    No.

    I have arrived at a point of view with which I am comfortable... but I would never argue that it's the only reasonable point of view. There are a lot of people in the world who are smarter than me, and many who have more credible perspectives.
    It's not rocket science. Deferring to others is totally unnecessary. You seem to be saying that you know your view is logically unsound, but you choose to stick to it?

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    It's not rocket science. Deferring to others is totally unnecessary. You seem to be saying that you know your view is logically unsound, but you choose to stick to it?
    No. I'm saying that I try not to mistake my personal convictions for Universal Law.

    I hope they closely correspond, but I am open to the possibility that they do not. It's a humility thing.

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