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Thread: Prop 8

  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    gays dont have ANYTHING infringing upon their rights.
    Really? lol I guess your right. Those gays are just silly and getting upset over nothing. It's ridiculous to think two consenting adults would want legal benefits to building a life with one another. Especially, when that already exists for heterosexuals. Inconceivable to think people would want equal rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    BECAUSE WE NEED YOUR HELP TO DO SO.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Well, straights should only be able to get "civil unions" under the law, too. Marriage should have nothing to do with government.
    Thank you. My thoughts exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    When I was in school, I learned about religion, creationism, cannibalism, human sacrifices, etc. Simply being exposed to something doesn't mean that I want to practice it.
    Yes. I grew up surrounded by heterosexuals and the promoting of that as the correct way to live. It didn't make me any less of a lesbian.

  2. #192
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Yes. I grew up surrounded by heterosexuals and the promoting of that as the correct way to live. It didn't make me any less of a lesbian.
    `
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  3. #193
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Yes. I grew up surrounded by heterosexuals and the promoting of that as the correct way to live. It didn't make me any less of a lesbian.
    Concerns about indoctrination are not limited to it "turning" children gay; some people think homosexual sex is immoral, just like some people think having sex outside of marriage is immoral. To phrase this debate another way, would you want a teacher to have effectively unrestricted opportunities to convince your child (subtly or otherwise) that homosexuality is wrong?

  4. #194
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Concerns about indoctrination are not limited to it "turning" children gay; some people think homosexual sex is immoral, just like some people think having sex outside of marriage is immoral. To phrase this debate another way, would you want a teacher to have effectively unrestricted opportunities to convince your child (subtly or otherwise) that homosexuality is wrong?
    I don't recall ever learning about marriage in school, and I personally don't want to be charged with teaching about it.

    That said: If it IS being taught in school, then there's already discrimination going on implicitly. A lack of mention of gay marriage (or civil unions) denies its validity implicitly; teaching about one type of partnership and not the other is a value statement in and of itself.

    Personally, I'd just rather not teach it. I don't think it's necessary to do so.
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  5. #195
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Concerns about indoctrination are not limited to it "turning" children gay; some people think homosexual sex is immoral, just like some people think having sex outside of marriage is immoral. To phrase this debate another way, would you want a teacher to have effectively unrestricted opportunities to convince your child (subtly or otherwise) that homosexuality is wrong?
    I'm not in favor of teachers inserting their morality into the classroom in any way, but I also fail to see how this would follow from simply allowing gays to marry. Just like now that they're not able to marry, doesn't mean teachers are able to indoctrinate children into homophobia. If it goes both ways, it goes both ways. (No double entendre intended.)
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  6. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I'm not in favor of teachers inserting their morality into the classroom in any way, but I also fail to see how this would follow from simply allowing gays to marry. Just like now that they're not able to marry, doesn't mean teachers are able to indoctrinate children into homophobia. If it goes both ways, it goes both ways. (No double entendre intended.)
    Backers focused Prop. 8 battle beyond marriage - Los Angeles Times

    Its a very good article on what happened with Prop 8 in California.

    I strongly object to those who say No on Prop 8 who don't understand exactly what happened. Stop reading the national news. They have no idea what actually happened.

  7. #197
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    I think it's only been, what, five years since the SCOTUS struck down the anti-sodomy laws in this country? Clearly, there are still some very unfortunate anti-gay laws and policies in place in this country. The irony is that most of the stuff that is supposed to be pro-gay that DOES pass actually is bad for America, like hate crime laws that punish thought.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #198
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I'm not in favor of teachers inserting their morality into the classroom in any way, but I also fail to see how this would follow from simply allowing gays to marry. Just like now that they're not able to marry, doesn't mean teachers are able to indoctrinate children into homophobia. If it goes both ways, it goes both ways. (No double entendre intended.)
    In this instance I'm debating whether or not indoctrination matters, not whether its likely to occur as a result of legal gay marriages. I have already said that I would not be able to vote "yes" prop 8, but I also understand the worry that a judiciary without any respect for constitutional boundaries or separation of powers may one day feel empowered and motivated to require such indoctrination. One of the problems seems to be that no one seems to know exactly what the Massachusetts decision (the second one) entailed, and are thus jumping to conclusions (myself included); could someone provide both the transcript and articles describing the practical impact, please?

  9. #199
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    From the article:

    They were able to focus the debate on their assertion that without the ban, public school children would be indoctrinated into accepting gay marriage against their parents' wishes, churches would be sanctioned for not performing same-sex weddings and the institution of marriage would be irreparably harmed.
    Some people have to "accept" the fact that interracial marriages occur despite being against them personally. And last I checked, a church wasn't required to marry any particular heterosexual couple, either. It's not like I could have waltzed into an Eastern Orthodox church with my husband-to-be and demanded that they marry us.
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  10. #200
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Some people have to "accept" the fact that interracial marriages occur despite being against them personally.
    No, racist merely have to tolerate interracial marriages, not be forced by the courts to allow their kids to be indoctrinated into accepting them . Debates like this make me appreciate that the ACLU exist (despite their double standards and extremism).

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