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Thread: Prop 8

  1. #11
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    This was disappointing for me. I live in Arizona.

    I honestly didn't think any of the marriage bans would be passed. All three of them were, the other I didn't include was Florida.
    Did the California amendment pass? Last I checked it was still too close to call.

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Did the California amendment pass? Last I checked it was still too close to call.
    The people who voted Yes (to ban) were claiming victory last night at midnight. (*eye roll*)

    I'm not sure what the answer is yet either.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm not sure why the church is involved in the legalities of the marriage process.
    The church has no direct say in the legalities. Government is involved in marriage because society has a vested interest in creating incentives for the best possible circumstances for reproduction and child-rearing.
    I don't wanna!

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    It's 48 (No) - 52 (Yes) with approx. 69% reporting, last I heard. Doesn't look good.

    There was a lot of fear-mongering with the social conservatives playing ads about how schools would have to teach kids about same-sex marriage and homosexuality. I was disgusted at these tactics.

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    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Very sad indeed.

  6. #16
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    Proposition 8- I think it's now 52% Yes to 48% No with 95% reporting this morning. The No on 8 People haven't conceded yet though (still provisional and absentee ballots to count).

    But even a loss today- it's a closer race than the Prop 22, which passed with 61.4% in 2000 (banned gay marriage in CA). And the youth vote is trending towards allowing gay marriage. In a few more years, with more newly-18 voters and perhaps a more friendly social environment... the majority will change. I still thought it would be today, though.

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    The church has no direct say in the legalities.
    Actually, you can get married in a church by a pastor and it counts as a LEGAL marriage, correct?

    That's what I'm confused on. Pastors should have authority within their own spheres but not in the legal sector.

    Government is involved in marriage because society has a vested interest in creating incentives for the best possible circumstances for reproduction and child-rearing.
    In that case, it hasn't been shown that the minority of long-term same-sex unions are having a detrimental impact on society. That's what I really have an issue with: The reasoning comes not from EVIDENCE but from preformed religious beliefs -- "God says this is wrong and will spell the downfall of civilization, regardless of what actually is happening, so we must eradicate it!"

    Again, if we really want to bitch about what is the "best possible circumstance for reproduction and child-rearing," let's analyze het marriages. I bet they fare worse than many of the same-sex marriages, in reality, if you look at actual stats. Should we ban het marriage? I think that would be a better basis for discussion, at the least -- analyzing statistics.

    More reason and less religion would be a welcome change. If these things are being passed on religious belief and not practical evidence, then I think it's religious intervention in legal matters and thus church-endorsed prejudice, pure and simple.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Actually, you can get married in a church by a pastor and it counts as a LEGAL marriage, correct?

    That's what I'm confused on. Pastors should have authority within their own spheres but not in the legal sector.
    Someone still has to notify the authorities, who sign off on it. You don't hire some guy off the street, do the ceremony, and all of the sudden you're filing your taxes jointly and on each other's insurance policies.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #19
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Again, if we really want to bitch about what is the "best possible circumstance for reproduction and child-rearing," let's analyze het marriages. I bet they fare worse than many of the same-sex marriages, in reality, if you look at actual stats. Should we ban het marriage? I think that would be a better basis for discussion, at the least -- analyzing history.
    Stats are good, but in the social arena, they become very dangerous. For example, het marriages may be more successful because homo marriages have been fringe for too long and face more challenges. Stat is great for measuring what is... it's explaining the reduction that is difficult.

    There is no real way of measuring the importance of such factors without a controlled experiment, or something close to that. However, fortunately for the US, a lot of the world is more progressive - they could look at the impact of other places for a reasonable idea.

    Granted, it depends on how reasonably we look at other places. I still hear the occasional "gay marriage caused natural disasters" from time to time.

  10. #20
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    WTF!?!?!?

    I expected more from my state.

    :sad:
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    'Cause you can't handle me...

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