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Thread: Prop 8

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    STOP comparing homosexuality to race and racism. I'm about tired of this argument for how inept and offensive it is. Your sexuality has no relation to racism
    Oh, I thought that infringing on the rights of minorities was called "Unfair", my bad.

    gays dont have ANYTHING infringing upon their rights.
    Yea they do.

    Civil unions don't grant the right of a spouse to make decisions for their partner if their partner is otherwise unable to do so (in the hospital, stuff like that)

    They also do not grant the Right of Survivorship, which makes it so a person's spouse (legally married to him/her) receives all the person's possessions when they die. This means that for civil unions, a family member can claim the right to the possessions, and/or the possessions can be taxed by the gov't.

  2. #162
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    STOP comparing homosexuality to race and racism. I'm about tired of this argument for how inept and offensive it is. Your sexuality has no relation to racism, ESPECIALLY in the nation we live in today where gays dont have ANYTHING infringing upon their rights.
    That's pretty daggone incorrect, but I guess that is to be expected. They are categorically denied the benefits that heterosexual partners get--tax wise, socially, and so forth.

    Marriage is an institution that originated and was based in heterosexuality, and even religion for the vast majority of human history. It is an institution steeped in sexuality. Thus, it is retarded, in my opinion, to appeal to the state and the government for a personal, sexual institution to be changed on the account of a sexuality that was NEVER meant to be a part of that institution. Sorry, that's the fact. The people have spoken on this time and time again.
    It originated and is based in religious views of gender roles and sexuality, and the government really shouldn't have anything to do with it.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  3. #163
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    Bottom line:

    If churches do not want to marry gays, that is the decision of the individual churches, Not the State.

    Separation of Church and State, an elementary school student understands that.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Eh, sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying.

    I don't know what the status of teaching marriage is, but if they do teach marriage, I don't see why they wouldn't include all the information. Why is that so scary? What's the risk?
    hey man. i was expecting more from a fellow bear. =)

    Yet a review of public records filed with the First District Court of Appeal in Boston shows these same organizations who claim our statement is a lie fought to make it true in Massachusetts. Specifically, they fought to ensure that gay marriage be taught in Massachusetts public schools, even over the objection of parents who sought an "opt out" for their children. Gay marriage was legalized by Massachusetts courts in 2003.
    Proposition 8: Who's Really Lying? - MarketWatch

    I just personally wouldn't want my future adolescent kids to be taught about gay marriage in schools. just like i wouldn't want them to be taught about religion.

    But if they wanna marry legally. By all means its cool. (btw, its about the 15th time i posted that article)

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Okay, if everything you say is true, then why is it considered okay to limit the authority of some churches to perform marriages of gays, if they see it as religiously acceptable? Why the insinuation that there is a line that cannot be straddled between religion and gay people? Why would gay people seek to be married if they did not have a vested spiritual interest in marriage's significance?
    This is where I begin to believe that the state should not be presiding over marriage, gay or straight. I would have no problem with some wonky church letting gays get married. That's their business, and the church's business. On that level the only people who would recognize the union would be that church and maybe any other churches that also do gay marriages. However, we come to a clusterfuck when we consider how the government has their fingers pressed into the institution of marriage. That is the point where it gets to complicated for me to argue for or against it, because there is so much that depends on what the government considers marriage, and marriage rights afforded by the government, and blah blah blah. Marriage and the state should've never been let near eachother in the first place.

  6. #166
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    I just personally wouldn't want my future adolescent kids to be taught about gay marriage in schools. just like i wouldn't want them to be taught about religion.
    What about heterosexual marriage?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Marriage and the state should've never been let near eachother in the first place.
    Now you have the right idea.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    What about heterosexual marriage?
    i don't remember ever being taught about hetereosexual marriage when i was a kid. or any marriage.

    all i remember learning is, sharing, math, reading, not to cuss, not to bully kids, dodgeball, etc... lolz

    dont remember someone telling me about a man and a man holding hands and kissing and marrying is the right of all california citizens. which i believe is true. but i dunno. just not something i think kids should deal with.

    and since there is so much unknown about what is supposed to be taught them, thats the risk im speaking of. i rather nothing be taught. but i don't think thats possible in massachussets.

  9. #169
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    i don't remember ever being taught about hetereosexual marriage when i was a kid. or any marriage.

    all i remember learning is, sharing, math, reading, not to cuss, not to bully kids, dodgeball, etc... lolz

    dont remember someone telling me about a man and a man holding hands and kissing is the right of all california citizens. which i believe is true. but i dunno. just not something i think kids should deal with.

    and since there is so much unknown about what is supposed to be taught them, thats the risk im speaking of. i rather nothing be taught. but i don't think thats possible in massachussets.
    Well as long as its consistent, I see no problem. But if they teach one, they should definitely teach both.

  10. #170
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I find it intensely irritating (I have probably typed these exact words) that we can't just fucking SOLVE THIS SHIT.

    Civil union = legal
    Marriage = religious

    Any couple of consenting human adults who want the benefits of a civil union should be able to apply and receive them. This means they should receive the benefits that come with that.

    If people want to be married, then they can find some religious/spiritual/mock religious-spiritual institution or individual to bless their partnership. This doesn't have to be recognized across institutions, nor does it have anything to do with legality. It is just a label. Not legal.

    Individuals get rights.
    Religious freedom is protected.

    There will be people who don't like it because they think they have the right to legislate other people's pants, but those people can suck it.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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