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  1. #211
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    I'm referencing to my intuition and reasoning. There had never been a pure "anything" country at all to take a real life example to take statistical data of.
    But you said it was "just as bad as pure communism if not worse if you look at statistics". Your intuition and reasoning are statistics?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #212
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
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    In that case I fucked up.

    In either case, I was thinking about something similar to the industrial revolution, that's probably why I slipped.

  3. #213
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    In that case I fucked up.

    In either case, I was thinking about something similar to the industrial revolution, that's probably why I slipped.
    What were trying to say about the industrial revolution?

    In mostly capitalist countries, the industrial revolution led to the lifestyles we have today. It allowed for a dramatic increase in economic efficiency, which encouraged greater specialization.

    In communist countries, it led to mass starvation. Resources were misallocated.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #214
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
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    Oh, I'm fully aware of the economic implications of capitalism and communism, but I was by no means referring to the economic aspect, more to the social one. What I was more referring to were the >12 hour jobs and slave like lives lived by the mass majority of the city folk.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    Oh, I'm fully aware of the economic implications of capitalism and communism, but I was by no means referring to the economic aspect, more to the social one. What I was more referring to were the >12 hour jobs and slave like lives lived by the mass majority of the city folk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    Pure capitalism is just as bad as pure communism if not worse if you look at statistics. .
    I'm still failing to understand how this is worse than communism... even during the industrial revolution, you didn't have Americans emigrating by the boat loads to Cuba.

  6. #216
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silence11 View Post
    I'm still failing to understand how this is worse than communism... even during the industrial revolution, you didn't have Americans emigrating by the boat loads to Cuba.
    I had no knowledge of America being a pure capitalist state and I don't remember claiming that the countries were purely capitalistic during the industrial revolution, I said that it was similar.

    I presented a hypothetical situation to which I gave my opinion. This situation does not exist in the real world.

  7. #217
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    Here is an interview done with Amity Shlaes author of The Forgotten Man, which is a book that details a lot of went on through the depression, and the role the political leaders of that time played in depression (particularly how FDR and his policies contributed to prolonging the depression). It's a REALLY great book that I just finished reading myself, and I highly recommend it.

    Glenn Beck - The Glenn Beck Program - Nov 11 2008 - Hour 3, Amity Shlaes - Free MP3 Stream on IMEEM Music

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    I had no knowledge of America being a pure capitalist state and I don't remember claiming that the countries were purely capitalistic during the industrial revolution, I said that it was similar.

    I presented a hypothetical situation to which I gave my opinion. This situation does not exist in the real world.
    In saying that "Pure capitalism is just as bad as pure communism" you seemed to be comparing capitalism to communism and saying that it is "just as bad, if not worse". I'm not sure what other point you could have been trying to make. Focasing the issue on the fact that no "pure" capitalist state has ever existed is beside the point.

    I take issue with the idea that capitalsim in general is somehow equal to or comparibly worse than communism. I believe that to be historically flawed logic simply because communism has already proven itself to be a failed form of government, especially in comparison to capitalism which happens to be the underlining economic engine for the most prosperous nations in the world.

  9. #219
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Pure laissez-faire Capitalism is pretty awful. The closest we've gotten to it was probably around late 19th early 20th century. You get long work days for a barely livable wage and no child labor restrictions. It's a pretty oppressive system for the majority of people.

    On the other hand Socialism is arguably even worse. At one point twenty million starved to death in China, because the state didn't allocate enough people to growing food. Essentially both of these ideologies are horrible when taken to extreme, but beneficial when implemented at some point in between. It's finding the right point in the continuum that people really disagree on.
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  10. #220
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Pure laissez-faire Capitalism is pretty awful. The closest we've gotten to it was probably around late 19th early 20th century. You get long work days for a barely livable wage and no child labor restrictions. It's a pretty oppressive system for the majority of people.

    On the other hand Socialism is arguably even worse. At one point twenty million starved to death in China, because the state didn't allocate enough people to growing food. Essentially both of these ideologies are horrible when taken to extreme, but beneficial when implemented at some point in between. It's finding the right point in the continuum that people really disagree on.
    Of course, the other thing here is that it's not remotely as simple as a one-dimensional continuum. Even three dimensions is primitive.
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