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  1. #191
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    "No work" part would the part I'd call bullshit on. There's always work if you're willing to work. You're only limited on what you're willing to do. Don't have work in your town, but refuse to relocate to where there's opportunity? Not my problem.
    I hope there is no depression in the works to show you how you are wrong.

    In any case, there are thresholds. Just ask yourself how much you are willing to pay to hire someone to do something for you, right now, on a yearly basis. How many people do you have working for you?

  2. #192
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Have any of you spent any appreciable time in a western european country?

    My thinking of economy is as one dimensional as anyone that believes markets should go unregulated, I am simply not a capitalist. it is obviously advantageous for people to get off their ass and do something, but I accept that not everyone physically can. Take those that just want to watch tv all day - what do you do about their kids? Do you say, sorry your parents didnt figure to show you how to do something? How about kids of those in jail? America jails more of its people than anywhere else. Or how about straight up that schools in poorer areas tend to be shit. If the schools are nto goign to get the funding they need to get teh kids out and into the world, the least that the state can do is keep them from starving to death when they are pushed out of them.

    What happens if the business fails, just let the people starve? Sorry, I'd rather have less so that everyone can have something.

  3. #193
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    Have any of you spent any appreciable time in a western european country?

    My thinking of economy is as one dimensional as anyone that believes markets should go unregulated, I am simply not a capitalist. it is obviously advantageous for people to get off their ass and do something, but I accept that not everyone physically can. Take those that just want to watch tv all day - what do you do about their kids? Do you say, sorry your parents didnt figure to show you how to do something? How about kids of those in jail? America jails more of its people than anywhere else. Or how about straight up that schools in poorer areas tend to be shit. If the schools are nto goign to get the funding they need to get teh kids out and into the world, the least that the state can do is keep them from starving to death when they are pushed out of them.

    What happens if the business fails, just let the people starve? Sorry, I'd rather have less so that everyone can have something.
    Kids are starving to death? I know some people go hungry, but I haven't heard of many people starving to death. It's really, really hard to starve to death in a country with so much food around. You've actually got to put in some effort to pull that one off.

    Also, the US jails so many because of the drug war (a horrible social policy failure). Inner city schools suck because we have a system that has removed choice from the parents (another horrible social policy failure).

    If a business fails, people should go find jobs elsewhere, not turn to the government for handouts.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #194
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Kids are starving to death? I know some people go hungry, but I haven't heard of many people starving to death. It's really, really hard to starve to death in a country with so much food around. You've actually got to put in some effort to pull that one off.

    Also, the US jails so many because of the drug war (a horrible social policy failure). Inner city schools suck because we have a system that has removed choice from the parents (another horrible social policy failure).

    If a business fails, people should go find jobs elsewhere, not turn to the government for handouts.
    No, kids dont stave death because of socialist programs to ensure they have something to eat, but if the govt did not give any handouts, they would.

    How does a family relocate if it has no money?

  5. #195
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    Have any of you spent any appreciable time in a western european country?
    Yes.


    My thinking of economy is as one dimensional as anyone that believes markets should go unregulated, I am simply not a capitalist.
    Clearly.


    it is obviously advantageous for people to get off their ass and do something, but I accept that not everyone physically can. Take those that just want to watch tv all day - what do you do about their kids? Do you say, sorry your parents didnt figure to show you how to do something? How about kids of those in jail? America jails more of its people than anywhere else.
    False.



    Or how about straight up that schools in poorer areas tend to be shit. If the schools are nto goign to get the funding they need to get teh kids out and into the world, the least that the state can do is keep them from starving to death when they are pushed out of them.
    Bad schools are the fault of bad government policy. We should be working to get underprivileged children into charter schools or voucher-driven private schools. Bad public schools are endemic.


    What happens if the business fails, just let the people starve? Sorry, I'd rather have less so that everyone can have something.
    That is not how things work, thank God.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #196
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    No, kids dont stave death because of socialist programs to ensure they have something to eat, but if the govt did not give any handouts, they would.
    I'd like to see you cite some statistics here because I don't think your perspective is realistic.

    How does a family relocate if it has no money?
    Who said anything about relocating?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #197
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    I think that in the event of famine people would resort to helping eachother (family, friends) rather than turning to the government. Even strangers can have filial attachments.

  8. #198
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'd like to see you cite some statistics here because I don't think your perspective is realistic.


    Who said anything about relocating?
    Kyuuei mentioned relocating.

    it is difficult to pull up statistics, when the us govt has had some socialistic programs for decades and decades, re. fdr's new deal, etc.

    however, logic would imply that if parents choose not to (personal survival) or cannot feed their kids, their kids would go hungry. The options of the kids would be to beg from the local community, steal, or be afforded food by some govt program that taxpayers pay for. I dont expect inner city kids to start a farm, do you?

  9. #199
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    Kyuuei mentioned relocating.

    it is difficult to pull up statistics, when the us govt has had some socialistic programs for decades and decades, re. fdr's new deal, etc.

    however, logic would imply that if parents choose not to (personal survival) or cannot feed their kids, their kids would go hungry. The options of the kids would be to beg from the local community, steal, or be afforded food by some govt program that taxpayers pay for. I dont expect inner city kids to start a farm, do you?
    Maybe they'll band together and have an exodus to a valley outside the city and start a little people community? :P

  10. #200
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Yes.

    False.

    Bad schools are the fault of bad government policy. We should be working to get underprivileged children into charter schools or voucher-driven private schools. Bad public schools are endemic.

    That is not how things work, thank God.
    im curious, where have you been, and for how long?

    So then, what nation has a higher rate of incarceration than the US?

    Voucher driven private schools? Sounds like welfare for education to me. The govt must collect money from people with more money so that those with much less can afford to give their kids a decent start in the world. How is that different than wealth distribution?

    If that is not how things work, then how do they?

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