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  1. #61
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    ^ cars are not widgets. cars are not commodities. there is significant differentiation based on quality.

    sorry, but in the end, a company does worse than their competitors bc of management. thats just common sense.

  2. #62
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    haha

    Rick Wagnor is being interviewed on CNBC right now.

    The interviewer asked him, if we give you a bailout, are you willing to step down and let new management come in?

    Rick Wagner says "no, because our management is already good, we're the best in the industry"

    uh....... think u could hear the eyes roll. i can't stand confident people who have nothing to back it up.

  3. #63
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    ^ cars are not widgets. cars are not commodities. there is significant differentiation based on quality.

    sorry, but in the end, a company does worse than their competitors bc of management. thats just common sense.
    I wish my world was so simple that I could appeal to common sense so easily, and scapegoat people so easily.

  4. #64
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    ^ as long as its legit, there's no problem. results are what matters in a competitive society. you should ask the workers whether they would rather work for the US based Toyota plant or the GM plant right now.

    unless u want to relate GM/Chrysler to a girlfriend you are fighting with, I'm not sure what your point is here.

    i think having some sort of bridge financing should be given, but only with a condition that there will be new management from Toyota, BMW, or other highly reputable companies.

  5. #65
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    ^ as long as its legit, there's no problem. results are what matters in a competitive society. you should ask the workers whether they would rather work for the US based Toyota plant or the GM plant right now.
    Legit requires evidence. Common sense does not make it legit. Reduction from "they didn't have results" doesn't make it legit (think: if you don't win in a poker hand, did you have bad cards?). And asking workers from failing companies where they would rather work doesn't define the broad market pressures that are causing the failures themselves.

    This management is burdened with bad past management decisions. New management will be as well. Better get a superstar in there... (if only to complain how overpaid they are).

  6. #66
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Better get a superstar in there
    not sure if a "superstar" is what they need. they need management from a proven automotive company to come in and fix things and turn things around. there's plenty of business school cases on toyota's company culture, automotive restructuring cases, etc... that might be more useful to read for these politicians at these point. it might be too deep in the hole, but its the only real chance they have.

  7. #67
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    not sure if a "superstar" is what they need. they need management from a proven automotive company to come in and fix things and turn things around. there's plenty of business school cases on toyota's company culture, automotive restructuring cases, etc... that might be more useful to read for these politicians at these point. it might be too deep in the hole, but its the only real chance they have.
    Then I would advise to keep the current management. They have done more to improve efficiencies and unwind the bad situation the companies are in than anyone else, and narrowed the efficiency gap incredibly over the same period.

    There isn't much else to be done, except maybe convince them to change their "big truck" approach due to external factors.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Then I would advise to keep the current management. They have done more to improve efficiencies and unwind the bad situation the companies are in than anyone else, and narrowed the efficiency gap incredibly over the same period.

    There isn't much else to be done, except maybe convince them to change their "big truck" approach due to external factors.
    ah. so what Big 3 company stock will you be buying if there is no management change?

    Let me know when you decide to buy those stocks. It seems like you are very sure of what you say, so i have no reason to not think you will back up what you say with actual real money.

    so by all means, I am looking forward to when you tell us you are buying GM/Chrysler/Ford stocks.

  9. #69
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    ah. so what Big 3 company stock will you be buying if there is no management change?
    None. And if there is a change? None.

    The only reason I would buy is if I expected the bail-out (speculation). None are long term candidates for me (my time horizon is 20+ years, and I base my decisions on fundamentals.)

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    None. And if there is a change? None.
    ah. thats what i thought.

    i wouldn't buy either way, but i would be more likely to for the long term ONLY if toyota management was recruited.

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