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  1. #11
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't see what's so bad about what Obama said. I disagree with his stance on climate change, but he didn't say he was going to impose anything without the support of the people. And he'll have a really hard time convincing people that they need to pay more for electricity.
    Presidents have quite broad powers over all the agencies, commissions, and other bureaucratic entities that report to the executive branch. Obama could do everything he's talking about with one phone call to the EPA.

    Not that I think he would, necessarily; but if he wanted to, it wouldn't be difficult at all except after the fact.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't see what's so bad about what Obama said. I disagree with his stance on climate change, but he didn't say he was going to impose anything without the support of the people. And he'll have a really hard time convincing people that they need to pay more for electricity.
    If his plan, his energy plan, is to target energy companies and coal companies in ways that will make prices "skyrocket" then rest assured he will be trying to push such an idiotic plan in his presidency. As you have witnessed with Bush, there are a hell of a lot of policies that get implemented without full support of the citizens. Thinking public distaste for such policies would stop him is nothing short of naivety, in my opinion.

    On top of that, his typical stance on the role of citizenry and government (the ideology of "community organizers", marxism, and his own comments about how he think the constitution gets in the way of government) gives me no reason to believe that his arrogance will sway to the will of the people (though I doubt the majority of democrats would be against his cap and trade policy).

    And what does this mean?

    If we can’t make that argument persuasively enough, you — you, uh, can be Lyndon Johnson, you can be the master of Washington. You’re not going to get that done.

  3. #13
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    And what does this mean?
    It means he needs the support of the people before wide spread change can happen. Means he can't just dictate and have it succeed.

  4. #14
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Hot Air

    Holy shit, now THIS is socialism.

    But I've always said (at least, for the past few months) that if you create a beast, you have to keep feeding it. And eventually, things will pop and will not be pretty.

  5. #15
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post


    (citation needed)
    Actually I just looked at the date, and the bill I'm thinking of passed in December 2000, so that was actually just before Bush was sworn in. It was a bill to deregulate the energy market so that Enron could have an easier time gaming the market and price gouging. Enron was gaming the energy markets at the time and causing all of the blackouts in California.
    Enron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Senator Phil Gramm, the second largest recipient of campaign contributions from Enron, succeeded in legislating California's energy commodity trading deregulation. Despite warnings from prominent consumer groups which stated that this law would give energy traders too much influence over energy commodity prices, the legislation was passed in December 2000.
    The Bush administration isn't totally innocent in California energy crisis though. California electricity crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Vice President Dick Cheney was appointed in January, 2001 to head the National Energy Development Task Force. In the Spring of that year, officials of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power met with the Task Force, asking for price controls to protect consumers. The Task Force refused, and insisted that deregulation must remain in place.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Hot Air

    Holy shit, now THIS is socialism.
    Thank you. The transcript from the link I provided didn't get into that part of the same interview, but I think it was in the audio.

    So, if somebody wants to build a coal plant, they can — it’s just that it will bankrupt them, because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.
    Again, this is lunacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It means he needs the support of the people before wide spread change can happen. Means he can't just dictate and have it succeed.
    I didn't get the Lyndon Johnson comparison...

  8. #18
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Thank you. The transcript from the link I provided didn't get into that part of the same interview, but I think it was in the audio.



    Again, this is lunacy.
    So he's going to lower our taxes, increase the taxes and put more stress on the upper echelons, and then they'll pass the cost on to us at the pump. Yeah. Sounds excellent. So we're right back where we started.

  9. #19
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Again, this is lunacy.
    I'm not sure how putting a high price on an externality is lunacy, but... I suppose if it interferes in the free market, it must be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I didn't get the Lyndon Johnson comparison...
    I would guess that he is referring to Great Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post

    I would guess that he is referring to Great Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Ah, that's right! Forgot he was the president who implemented that. Figures he would make more comparisons to one of the greatest movements toward socialism we've ever had. So does he mean the public wont be able to get his cap and trade policy done, or that we can't get changes like the great society done?

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