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  1. #1
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Smile What is Wrong with Economy

    Money is a medium of exchange.
    Of things.
    How do things come by?
    They are a produce of labour.

    What do you sell?
    A produce of labour.

    Can you sell something that is not a produce of labour?
    You can.

    And what do you sell then?
    Nothing.

  2. #2

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    But aren't we trying to free ourselves from the labor of necessity?
    To trade it for the labor of love?
    Is it so wrong to want machines to perform the labor of necessity?
    ...and to sell the product of that labor?

    True. To sell the product the labor of others, is another matter.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  3. #3
    Senior Member NoahFence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    And what do you sell then?
    Credit default swaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Nothing.
    errrr, yeah...same thing
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

  4. #4
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    the problem with labor is that there is less incentive for talent to head towards making widgets than 10 years ago...

    everyone who was around 10 years ago remembers all the craze about options and getting rich from getting with a company early with an IPO, then a lot of the smart people would work for startups with options invested for big payoffs later potentially. In this environment, truly, the smart and hard working were promoted instead of the political people. People who are good at workplace politics are almost NEVER the people who can make a good widget that is superior.

    Then the accountants got stupid trying to make a power grab, and made options an expense, even tho shareholders clearly already knew the risk of their shares bought already had the risk of dilution from options being excercised.

    Now, with few companies willing to give the type of options we had before during the internet boom (now that its an expense that hurts their bottom line even tho it has no effect on their cash flow), there was less incentive for talent to head towards making superior widgets. and then we had to depend on a housing bubble to grow the economy... etc...etc...

    man... i seriously miss the internet boom of the 90's. All the companies back then that went bust, those ideas became reality once enough peopel got broadband internet in the states...

  5. #5
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    But aren't we trying to free ourselves from the labor of necessity?
    To trade it for the labor of love?
    Is it so wrong to want machines to perform the labor of necessity?
    ...and to sell the product of that labor?

    True. To sell the product the labor of others, is another matter.
    The leaf blowing machine has the sound of hell, but does it labour?
    Does the man labour, who carries the idiotic thing in his back? He thinks he does.
    A spade is so much better. It does not labour either.
    In the paper mill the machine does the work. Does it labour?
    If so, why it is not in the Labour Party?

    It is said the machines take over one day. Then they labour.
    If so, are they machines any more?

    The Capitalist sells the product of his labourer. As you said. The labourer works hard.
    The Capitalist tells her to work harder. Why?
    He does not want the figures to give a realistic picture of the worth of the company.

    He is going to sell the company, not the labourer. Slavery is forbidden.
    The Stock Market is not.

  6. #6
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
    Credit default swaps.



    errrr, yeah...same thing
    Yes

  7. #7
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    the problem with labor is that there is less incentive for talent to head towards making widgets than 10 years ago...

    everyone who was around 10 years ago remembers all the craze about options and getting rich from getting with a company early with an IPO, then a lot of the smart people would work for startups with options invested for big payoffs later potentially. In this environment, truly, the smart and hard working were promoted instead of the political people. People who are good at workplace politics are almost NEVER the people who can make a good widget that is superior.

    Then the accountants got stupid trying to make a power grab, and made options an expense, even tho shareholders clearly already knew the risk of their shares bought already had the risk of dilution from options being excercised.

    Now, with few companies willing to give the type of options we had before during the internet boom (now that its an expense that hurts their bottom line even tho it has no effect on their cash flow), there was less incentive for talent to head towards making superior widgets. and then we had to depend on a housing bubble to grow the economy... etc...etc...

    man... i seriously miss the internet boom of the 90's. All the companies back then that went bust, those ideas became reality once enough peopel got broadband internet in the states...
    One thing leads to another, man.

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