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  1. #31
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    (OK)

    And you, what do you think?
    Well, I didn't mean to drag the thread too far off-topic.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  2. #32
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    My reason #17 (in order of importance) for supporting Obama: His sense of humor

  3. #33
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    i like obama because he's as close as you can get to bill clinton. i want the roaring 90's back. minus all the hedonism.


    I don't know if Obama knows how to party.

    I'm pretty sure he doesn't party like Clinton and Bush.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #34
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Well, for us Europeans, the choice is quite obvious, very easy. When we look at the candidates's political programs and compare them to our own European parties, we immediately notice that Republican's ideas are quite similar to our far right.

    Thus, MacCain's popularity is similar to our own far right, and that means: very low (between 6-10%).

    In France, Obama would be considered a moderate conservative, while Bush and MacCain would both be stuck into our "reactionary right", close to neo-fascists. And indeed, only our own neo-fascist activists openly claim to support MacCain.

    I'm not exaggerating, it's plain facts.

    ---

    So don't be surprized with the numbers these polls show.

    Most Americans really do not care, though. We have to vote for candidates that represent our interests.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #35
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    Wow I ROFL'd so hard.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  6. #36
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    ...if u don't hold people accountable for thier mistakes, they will do it again. thats more important at this point for the long term future. you must punish misbehavior of politicians.
    This sounds like a wonderful concept, but what do you specifically mean by "punishment?"

    There's not a great way (other than voting them out of office) to punish someone, and often it doesn't happen... and the NEXT guy does the same thing all over again!

    Largest two cases in point:
    1. Eliot Spitzer in New York stepped down as governor, after being caught in a prostitution ring. He had claimed to be a reformer, to clean up politics; he ended up doing the same thing he was claiming to fight.
    2. After Mark Foley stepped down in FL as a congressman in 2006 due to some evidence of homosexual liaisons and hanky-panky with young staffers and sexual harrassment, he was replaced by Tim Mahoney, who made a big deal about his family values and desire to clean things up -- who now has been seemingly caught in one sexual affair after another that he probably paid hush money to cover up... which of course he lies about, then admits to, then lies some more.

    We punish one guy, but they don't repent, really; and the next guy who vows to "clean things up" is just as bad. How can people be so STUPID first of all to be that openly hypocritical, and then to think they won't get caught? But they do it anyway.

    The "punishments" we give them aren't deterring the behavior, they just at best remove a loser from power... but even often that does not work.

    Will Obama be someone who needs to be "punished" at some point? He might have his flaws, but as far as a reason to vote for him (without saying whether McCain also fits the same bill): I don't think we're going to see these sorts of scandals from him. He doesn't seem to be a Type A "try to get away with murder" sort; he seems to be very open about what he wants and what he sees, and he's much more cerebral than carnal.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #37
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    I agree with Noah, Jennifer and Eileen's comments. Here's a little humor -
    BBC NEWS | Americas | US Elections 2008 | Peru's shamans send US election vibes
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  8. #38
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    Once things get back to normal, Pre Bush, people will vote back in at least house or senate based on more normal times type of issues. But for now the miscreants of the past 8 years gotta be punished!
    um, you do realize that the Democrats have controlled both houses of congress for the past two years, right? I sincerely hope you are right about Obama, but his history leaves me no reason to believe he will pursue centrist policies unless political conditions leave him no other option. Unless the national polls turn out to be as messed up as the primary polls, it seems we'll find out over the course of the next two years.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I think it's pretty damn fascinating that a vote or support for Obama has been deemed "unfounded" and strictly "emotional" by his detractors. There are definitely emotional voters, but it's not like the man hasn't laid out exactly what he wants and believes, time and time again. And repeatedly, people here and elsewhere have stated that Obama is just a manipulator and that his supporters are sheep.

    I just want to go on the record and say that I think that voting based merely on emotions is bad and dangerous. I don't think that emotions are irrelevant; the morale of a union matters, and a good leader should invoke positive emotions for that reason (not at the cost of effective policy, of course, so a good leader should also be willing to make people angry). But content and sensibleness matters most. Obama has given us content, a lot of it, in every speech, in every debate.

    If people disagree with Obama's policies, that's fine. If they think his notions are pie-in-the-sky, that's fine. If they think that he's just not experienced enough, that's fine. But if they object to him because they think he's a terrorist (fucking ridiculous), a manipulator (maybe not ridiculous, but listen more closely), a socialist (ridiculous--he's pretty daggone moderate), then they're voting emotionally. And that is stupid.

    I feel pretty confident in assuming that about the same number of people who vote strictly emotionally for Democrats do so for Republicans. I personally think that people who vote for third parties are less likely to be emotional voters, but I don't really have facts to back that up.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #40
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Well, I didn't mean to drag the thread too far off-topic.
    Blackmail! gave you the answer with which I fully agree. I am not from France but in my case it is also correct that only far right would consider supporting the Republicans.

    As for your original question, I think that people in the US are more or less aware of it but what they dont know (in general) is how much the rest of the world wants a Democrat(Obama) in the White house.

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