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  1. #111
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Where did I say it has to be one or the other? I'm just saying that there's no substitute for an autonomous desire to educate oneself. I mean, I'll tell people my thoughts if they initiate a discussion..(or if they know my thoughts and I want to rant)..but I don't think it's right to consider yourself the world's teacher. Most people consider that obnoxious and self-righteous.
    I understand what you're saying, but I also don't see a reason to couch what you say if you're clearly more informed about a subject. Everyone has a right to an opinion; that doesn't mean that every opinion is right.


    I'm pretty sure reality already exists for that purpose and if people can't learn a lesson the hard way, it was either academic or there's no way they would have learned it the easy way. Parents are another source of knowledge. You know, when you're NOT an adult who doesn't like being told what to do by strangers who think they're superior to you. Hell, most kids don't even like that. Why waste your breath?
    The best way to teach is by example, anyway.
    Teaching by example would be one kind of social pressure, would it not? There are clear social signals involved. I don't think people should go around insulting each other, but I also don't think that you should keep quiet when someone is clearly in the wrong. You should speak up, if you have the good taste to know what you are talking about, and you have legitimate points that you can back up. I'd much rather have someone school me with expert power than oppress me with coercive political power.
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  2. #112
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    Sorry about the derail, mods, but this is interesting and this thread will be moot in 2 days anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I understand what you're saying, but I also don't see a reason to couch what you say if you're clearly more informed about a subject. Everyone has a right to an opinion; that doesn't mean that every opinion is right.
    Sure, if I happen to be more informed there's no reason to hide that fact, per se, but I try to be more substance over style when it comes to conveying it. If reason and evidence aren't sufficient for convincing someone, I can't help them. They have to sort that out on their own.
    Most importantly, you could undermine your own efforts by coming across too forcibly. Even if they seem to agree with you, they might just be easily led or trying to be polite.

    Teaching by example would be one kind of social pressure, would it not?
    There are clear social signals involved.
    No, unless you're clearing your throat loudly and throwing meaningful glances at people whenever you think you're "teaching by example"....and just imagining someone do that makes me shudder to my core.

    I don't think people should go around insulting each other, but I also don't think that you should keep quiet when someone is clearly in the wrong.
    Don't you think that can be patronizing though?
    I don't wanna!

  3. #113
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    I think it's more of a lose-lose situation either way, but I voted for Obama because he seemed like the lesser of two evils. Watching the debates was annoying because all they did was argue, assert accusations, rebuttal those accusations with counter-accusations, etc. I felt like nothing was accomplished. McCain just gives me the creeps, though I would never base my vote on that.

    The new tax plan Obama has seems promising, and I'm willing to give it a try. A lot of the people around here (Catholic University) are just voting for McCain because he is pro-life. I think that is RIDICULOUS (and I'm Catholic) because:

    1) It's not like having a president that is pro-life has made a huge difference in the past.
    2) Passing a law that bans abortion is not going to solve the problem. Let's face it: if people want an abortion, they will find a way to get one. Level of education and income seem to be correlated with the rate of abortion (the higher education level and income is, the lower someone's chance of having an abortion is). Focusing on these factors (and others, I'm sure) seem like they would be more effective at lowering abortion rates than passing some law that is begging to be broken. And shouldn't these be concerns, anyways? Seems like Obama is more concerned about Education, IMO.

    Honestly, I'm not sure why people divide themselves into Republican and Democrat anyways. They are just labels; I wish people would just focus on the candidates. Some people are just voting for a political candidate because of their party affiliation, and that's just sad. This goes for Obama and McCain supporters equally.
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  4. #114
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Sorry about the derail, mods, but this is interesting and this thread will be moot in 2 days anyway.
    Sure, if I happen to be more informed there's no reason to hide that fact, per se, but I try to be more substance over style when it comes to conveying it. If reason and evidence aren't sufficient for convincing someone, I can't help them. They have to sort that out on their own.
    Most importantly, you could undermine your own efforts by coming across too forcibly. Even if they seem to agree with you, they might just be easily led or trying to be polite.
    That's a legitimate difference in style then. I can dig that. I'd rather sound commanding, if I have a command of the subject at hand. As long as you're respectful, I think people respond to confidence and to expert power.


    No, unless you're clearing your throat loudly and throwing meaningful glances at people whenever you think you're "teaching by example"....and just imagining someone do that makes me shudder to my core.
    Can't agree here. Any social interaction, by definition, has social signals involved. You don't have to beat someone over the head, but teaching by example is still teaching, and there is assumption there is something that the other party doesn't know, but should.


    Don't you think that can be patronizing though?
    I think that's only patronizing if your mindset is. People can misinterpret that, but that is a danger in every social interaction. To me, it's better to seem like a honest jerk than an disingenuous jerk.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #115
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    I think it's more of a lose-lose situation either way, but I voted for Obama because he seemed like the lesser of two evils. Watching the debates was annoying because all they did was argue, assert accusations, rebuttal those accusations with counter-accusations, etc.
    I thought Obama did a pretty good job in the last debate of sticking with the issues. The first one was okay, and McCain wasn't quite so angry and accusatory in that one (foreign policy is his comfort zone, to be sure). The second debate, though, was awful for everyone involved.

    Honestly, I'm not sure why people divide themselves into Republican and Democrat anyways. They are just labels; I wish people would just focus on the candidates. Some people are just voting for a political candidate because of their party affiliation, and that's just sad. This goes for Obama and McCain supporters equally.
    Well--I have said the same, but honestly, you can vote for the individual, but you get the party. And the parties have their agendas, and those agendas need to be taken into account.
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  6. #116
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    3:35 (Time in France)

    Obama: 199
    MacCain: 124

    Since Obama has already won Ohio and very likely Florida too... Well, my guess is that the game is over.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #117
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    It's looking pretty bleak, indeed.

  8. #118
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm waiting with my bottle of wine in hopes of getting to celebrate later... but as a Cubs fan I'm keeping a healthy pessimism about things


    EVERYONE I LOVE FUCKS UP ROYALLY AT THE LAST MOMENT USUALLY!
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  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It's looking pretty bleak, indeed.
    Well, for 80% of the world population, "bleak" is probably not the proper word.

    But I'll try to stay as neutral as I can till the results are really over.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #120
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Are people really going to celebrate? That seems pretty ridiculous to me. Winning a million dollars is cause for celebration, not this.

    The state of the Senate is just as important as the presidential election. The Democrats cannot win 60 seats. That would be horrible.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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