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  1. #101
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Wow, dude. I'm surprised he's going public with this kind of thing. But of course I knew he was a totalitarian socialist at heart.
    Or maybe a soundbite doesn't really cover what he meant, and that it's covered in his "plan for america" document.

  2. #102
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Or maybe a soundbite doesn't really cover what he meant, and that it's covered in his "plan for america" document.
    No, I just checked on his website for what he was talking about, and it's pretty goddamn frightening.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #103
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, I just checked on his website for what he was talking about, and it's pretty goddamn frightening.
    As a partial-libertarian, I would agree with you (just not for the reasons that the soundbite make it sound like).

  4. #104
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't understand the "civilian" part either. If the government is supposed to provide funding and put people on a payroll, doesn't that make them a federal security force? We're already supposed to be afforded a right to bear arms and form a militia if needed. God dammit. I want to find out more about this.

    What's the problem with beefing up our National Guard? How is military not sufficient for our security?

    If anyone has links that go into more detail about this I'd like to read them.

  5. #105
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Don't forget the option that he is just talking nonsense simply because he has nothing to say.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Don't forget the option that he is just talking nonsense simply because he has nothing to say.
    Then he's even more of an idiot for saying things that stupid, if he doesn't even mean it.

    You guys think I'm a crackpot half the time for how muh I come on here and criticize Obama and many of the supporters who follow him blindly. There are few things I will stick to my guns so strongly about, and the EXTREME agenda of Obama's is one thing I will not back down from, because it is true! This is complete craziness that people are falling for it. My God there's just so much this guy does and says but nobody pays attention until it's too late. Good on whoever posted his comment about the civilian security force. I completely missed mentioning it earlier in the week. Check out my post on his supposed Cap and Trade plan to make energy prices skyrocket. My jaw dropped, even more than the story about the civilian security force because there is no denying what he means.

  7. #107
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Yeah, I don't understand the "civilian" part either. If the government is supposed to provide funding and put people on a payroll, doesn't that make them a federal security force? We're already supposed to be afforded a right to bear arms and form a militia if needed. God dammit. I want to find out more about this.
    Yup, it includes stuff like opening closed consulates, expanding the peace corps, humanitarian aid (USAID overhall) and the like. He wants to expand it into different divisions of specialists - language, agriculture and such for the AID portions, and more diplomatic and what not support for the security aspects.

    There is a security component too, but not in a military sense.

    The concerning parts are the community service bits and related topics. That goes over to the "too socialist" part.

  8. #108
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Then he's even more of an idiot for saying things that stupid, if he doesn't even mean it.
    I have never said that it is smart or stupid just a possibility.

    You are probably right. But where he said it is also important for this "story".

  9. #109
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    As we get closer to the actual election day, I wanted to know more about Obama, since I'm thinking seriously of voting for him, and have been for some time. I wanted to hear what the downside was, and basically what was revealed about his character from how he ascended the ranks. My main reasons for voting for him are his views on ending the Iraq war and health insurance.

    My eyes were really opened up by reading the two articles I'm linking here.
    One thing I learned from the articles was that Obama is certainly no wide eyed idealist, who lacks the ability to make "tough" choices, even though he may have started out that way as a young man. In fact, he strikes me as being pretty ruthless in some ways. That can be seen as "bad", of course, but when people read this who are afraid he won't be able to negotiate with foreign leaders effectively from a "position of strength" ( as the old saying goes ) they may change their minds about that part, anyway, if not others.

    Doubtless he will continue his practice of using the web and other grassroots coalition architecture to motivate people around the country ( or world ? ) to continue to carry out volunteer activities and to "make sacrifices for the future generations" etc. He seems to have been mostly a straight talker, who has walked a fine line between traditional "Chicago machine" politics and incremental steps towards additional power for new visions, and let the chips fall where they may. ( I will need to look into the allegations in the second article further - and I'm basing what I'm saying now more on the New Yorker piece. Obviously the other side of the coin on the summary I just gave would be that he has only been effective at getting elected to higher and higher positions of authority versus accomplishing a lot in those positions. )

    I have read articles that claim that his "volunteer corps" will be "Federally funded" versus "volunteer", and there are other reports that there is some kind of huge "world poverty assistance" bill coming up for vote. These reports are from extreme right wing sites, but nevertheless may be true. I try to keep an open mind. ( However, to borrow McCain's own opinion, Obama changes his mind frequently. ) The upshot of the article was that the grassroots corps would become some kind of SA brownshirt movement and that 800 billion was going to go out to countries around the globe who need our help. True or not ?

    See what you think:
    The Political Scene: Making It: Reporting & Essays: The New Yorker

    Instead of posting the "American Thinker" article I originally read, I'll link this one instead, that provided the source for some of the AT allegations. It is kinda sobering.
    Grim proving ground for Obama's housing policy - The Boston Globe
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I'd rather be informed and considered elitist than be blind and considered humble.
    Where did I say it has to be one or the other? I'm just saying that there's no substitute for an autonomous desire to educate oneself. I mean, I'll tell people my thoughts if they initiate a discussion..(or if they know my thoughts and I want to rant)..but I don't think it's right to consider yourself the world's teacher. Most people consider that obnoxious and self-righteous.

    How else can we make it not OK to be uninformed?
    I'm pretty sure reality already exists for that purpose and if people can't learn a lesson the hard way, it was either academic or there's no way they would have learned it the easy way. Parents are another source of knowledge. You know, when you're NOT an adult who doesn't like being told what to do by strangers who think they're superior to you. Hell, most kids don't even like that. Why waste your breath?
    The best way to teach is by example, anyway.
    I don't wanna!

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