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  1. #41
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Where do you think the country is headed to in the coming years? Where would you like it to go? What do you envision for the future of your own home, the USA (for those who live here)?
    The US will continue to follow Europe on its path toward self destruction.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #42
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Wow... I can think of quite a few people who I do NOT want in charge of the country now!

    The direction in which I see the country going? I see a lot more financial constriction happening in the future to pay off the massive debts that we've accumulated. We'll be paying off the debts for this war for a long time. It depends on who is in charge as to what programs get cut or cut back on and which programs are still funded. I don't think that we'll be as involved in the affairs of other countries after we get disengaged from the wars that we are embroiled in now for a while since people are getting a bit tired of such things AND we can't afford it.

    Kids will no longer expect to be better off than thier parents after they graduate and get a job because our economy is shifting in nature- there's no longer as much of an option of graduating high school and getting a dependable job with benefits down at the local factory- and graduating college no longer guarentees you a good job. We're turning into a more service as opposed to production based economy. I can't see this as being particularly beneficial to a country our size and with our population. I don't see things as being as easy in the future, but not all doom and gloom either- I just think that the lovely house of cards that we were living in has become destabilized and has started to collapse

    What would I like to see?

    Better funding for education- both lower and higher. If we have a better educated society we have more of a possibility of avoiding the trap of slipping into becoming a service economy. I'd be all for a program where kids work various jobs that help the country (not necissarily military at all... things more like a lot of New Deal programs dealt with, or even driving ambulances and such like in Israel!) for a few years and in turn they get thier college education for free. Kids who don't want to help can pay for themselves. And no cut back on music and the arts- people learn and feel attached to different things- I don't want to live in a society without music and art, all of the greatest civilizations were endowed with such things!

    Free health care- more international corporations would happily locate here if they didn't have to foot thier employees' health care plans- I've heard countless interviews with CEOs who state that this is thier biggest problem with locating in the US- here they have to pay and elsewhere they don't have to. Or at least have a free option for those who have not already purchased thier own plans- then we'd be a healthier country and people wouldn't wait until they had to go to the emergency room and leave the county to foot the bill.

    PREVENTATIVE HEALTHCARE!!! Much less money would be spent on medicines and hospital procedures if we cared for people BEFORE things got out of hand!

    More funding and emphasis on implementing clean energy policies and systems. Better for the environment, better for our health, better for the country.

    Focus more heavily on our National Parks and other Tourist draws... look to improving things that attract the attention of tourists and work at making them more accessable to people who don't speak English and aren't familiar with the American culture and ways- if we're going to lose out on our manufacturing sector we need to start making up for it more in different sectors. Sure, we get plenty of tourists now, but we can always improve!

    Backing off from policing the world and developing a better defensive military system than the current offensive one that we have. A good defense is better than a good offense, and guarentees a lack of attacks against us better (not to mention makes other countries want to attack us less). Building up a defense instead of invading, digging in and fighting for years is also cheaper We need cheap now!

    Building up a better Mass Transit System, for both cities and in between the cities- if we have better mass transportation we won't have as much wear and tear on the highway system (less money for repairs there) and we won't use as many fossil fuels and such.

    Foreign language education as a requirement- we are NOT an island, we have a lot of people living in this country who speak another language (most notably spanish). We've got to face reality and realize that A. it's not that hard to learn another language B. being bilingual gives you a lot of advantages that you won't otherwise have and C. Things aren't going to change that way- we'll always have non-native speakers here and they'll probably just increase in number, so we might as well have the same edge on getting hired as they do!

    that's just my two cents worth- if you do one of those horrid, piece by piece responses to this which end up as a page or so of text I'm not going to respond- I have better things to do
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Well... I don't know what your art teachers have done to you to deserve this, but sure, your program is quite totalitarian. You're not that far away from 1984, since your goal seems to erase every possible traces of the western humanistic culture.

    What is the purpose of education, I ask you...

    Do you see men as impersonal products, "merchandise beings"?
    No, Blackmail, no. My goal is not that. My goal is to teach the necessities in a public system of education, and leave the cultural learning to individuals on their own time. In 1984, culture was illegal. Information was controlled. In my case, what I simply argue is that there is a wealth of information that many have access to at a moment's notice should they so desire it. The role of our schools isn't to indoctrinate a culture, but simply to teach facts, and let each and every individual make their own decisions as to how they use that information.

    What is the purpose of education? To give people the necessary tools to be able to provide for themselves in their lives and not mooch off of unionization, government programs, and what have you. The purpose of education is to EDUCATE, not INDOCTRINATE.

    Do I see men as impersonal products and merchandise beings? Certainly. Humans are selfish. Every interaction is an attempt at improving one's own well being, and thus an investment of something (time, energy) in order to reap some form of reward. If you think deeply enough to the basic elements of humanity, you will realize that our imperfections lead us to essentially develop a merchant being system as the beginning of every single interaction.

    You have something I need or want. I have something you need or want. We interact, and thus, are both better off than we were before.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  4. #44
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Do I see men as impersonal products and merchandise beings? Certainly. Humans are selfish. Every interaction is an attempt at improving one's own well being, and thus an investment of something (time, energy) in order to reap some form of reward. If you think deeply enough to the basic elements of humanity, you will realize that our imperfections lead us to essentially develop a merchant being system as the beginning of every single interaction.
    Lol...

    wat if i say BOOGA MOOGA KOOGA BLAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    please analyze how this benefits me.

    hahahaha i just turned 8 years old! cool

  5. #45
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    I would like the country to live up to the principles it was founded on.

    That went awry almost from the start...

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    Lol...

    wat if i say BOOGA MOOGA KOOGA BLAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    please analyze how this benefits me.

    hahahaha i just turned 8 years old! cool
    Uh, you just had a laugh?
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  7. #47
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    The purpose of education is to EDUCATE, not INDOCTRINATE.
    But that's what you are doing, "indoctrinate". What you propose is in fact a very extreme form of a totalitarian ideology (with a technocratic flavor [1]), but can you realize it?
    I sense lot of frustration and humiliation in you... (unless you are very young?)

    The purpose of education never was to mould efficient workers or "economic agents", but to allow us to better ourselves in the broadest possible sense, and that includes every humanistic values: art, culture, and so on.
    Education should give us clues or hints to better our lives, to enjoy it.

    And the ultimate goal of a successful education (the top of the pyramid, if you prefer) never was to create efficient businessmen with the highest possible salary, but to form intellectuals.

    ---

    [1] You should read Habermas on that subject.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    But that's what you are doing, "indoctrinate". What you propose is in fact a very extreme form of a totalitarian ideology (with a technocratic flavor), but can you realize it?
    I sense lot of frustration and humiliation in you... (unless you are very young?)

    The purpose of education never was to mould efficient workers or "economic agents", but to allow us to better ourselves thanks to the broadest possible sense, and that includes every humanistic values: art, culture, and so on.
    Education should give us clues or hints to better our lives, to enjoy it.

    And the ultimate goal of a successful education (the top of the pyramid, if you prefer) never was to create efficient businessmen with the highest possible salary, but to form intellectuals.
    Not at all. Indoctrination is teaching WHAT to think. Education is teaching HOW to think.

    The fact is that right now our public schools are SORELY behind much of the developed world in the way of science and engineering and mathematics. I was recently at the Columbia University engineering career fair and holy shit, there were so many Indians. It sickened me. America was built on engineering. People like Edison and the Wright Brothers and Bill Gates are responsible for so much innovation, and we need to continue that.

    So if we're going to teach more mathematics and science and engineering and economics, something has to go, and that is the arts. Because guess what?

    THE ARTS NEVER GOT ANYONE A GOOD JOB. And it doesn't matter what kind of "intellectualism" you have if you forget it all anyway since it's never applicable to the workplace!
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  9. #49
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    So if we're going to teach more mathematics and science and engineering and economics, something has to go, and that is the arts. Because guess what?

    THE ARTS NEVER GOT ANYONE A GOOD JOB. And it doesn't matter what kind of "intellectualism" you have if you forget it all anyway since it's never applicable to the workplace!
    Coming from a hardcore science guy, your state sounds like "destination boredom."

  10. #50
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    THE ARTS NEVER GOT ANYONE A GOOD JOB. And it doesn't matter what kind of "intellectualism" you have if you forget it all anyway since it's never applicable to the workplace!
    Look, I'm an architect.

    Do you think I'm rather an artist or an engineer?

    When I'm working on a project, I juggle with sociology, urbanism, politics, environmental datas, technical datas, sense of design, history of art, local culture, economics, laws, regulations, and so on, and so on...

    I need all of this or else, I'd be a lame architect. It's as simple as that.

    ---

    Another fact. When I learned English, I never thought I did it because I wanted a higher salary. I enjoyed it because it allowed me to open up to other cultures, new ways of thinking, new paradigms, hence my presence here. You can't rationalize curiosity everytime!

    ---

    The society you propose is as mad as it is terrifying, and eventually self-destructive. It's not because you weren't successful in arts that you have to forbid every one else to find meaning in it.

    You simply don't know what you're missing, you still have much to learn.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

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