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  1. #1
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Default The USA was not founded as a Christian Nation

    As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
    Treaty of Tripoli, drafted in 1796 under George Washington and signed by John Adams in 1797.

    Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
    -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

    To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But heresy it certainly is.
    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Aug. 15, 1820

    Lighthouses are more useful than churches
    Benjamin Franklin

    This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there was no religion in it.
    John Adams


    The idea that this country is founded on Christianity is COMPLETELY WRONG. It pains me, when I hear people like Sarah Palin G.W. Bush bring up their faith in the public sector.

    The people of this video clearly need to learn to read and read about the actaul history of the USA:
    [youtube=zRqcfqiXCX0] .[/youtube]




    I have no idea what else Barry Goldwater supported in his time, but I do like this speech:
    "On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.

    I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'"

  2. #2
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Default

    This country? There's a big world out there, eh.

  3. #3
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    This country? There's a big world out there, eh.
    I see everyone writing english and I get egocentric....fixed now

  4. #4
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    Two very disturbing things about that video:

    1) So this is why we have President Bush. That half of Americans are this stupid is beyond disturbing. Honestly, people this stupid should not have the right to vote.

    2) What the hell is an American doing reporting for AL JAZEERA?! Why the hell do we have people working for ARAB networks WITHIN THE UNITED STATES?!
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  5. #5
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post

    2) What the hell is an American doing reporting for AL JAZEERA?! Why the hell do we have people working for ARAB networks WITHIN THE UNITED STATES?!
    Do you think americans should be allowed to report on arab states? If so, why not the opposite way around?

  6. #6
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Two very disturbing things about that video:

    1) So this is why we have President Bush. That half of Americans are this stupid is beyond disturbing. Honestly, people this stupid should not have the right to vote.

    2) What the hell is an American doing reporting for AL JAZEERA?! Why the hell do we have people working for ARAB networks WITHIN THE UNITED STATES?!
    To be fair, I have actually heard from some europeans that english Al Jazeera is not nearly as biased as some of our stations can be (Fox news, take your pick on the liberal example)

  7. #7
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Your country like mine was founded as a secular State that guarantees freedom of religion.

    However the secular State arose as a way of settling the wars between the christian denominations.

    So the secular State rose directly from the christian denominations, in particular their wars.

    Islam has no concept of the secular State. Islam does not share the principle of the separation of the Church and State. In fact to talk about the separation of the Mosque and State is ridiculous.

    So it is true to say that the secular State is based on christianity.

    But even at a deeper level, there has never been a civilization not based on a religion. And the civilization of the West is based on the religion of Judeo-Greek-Christianity.

    And it is true to say that the USA is part of West.

    And so the USA together with Oz is part of Christian civilization.

    Although it is not politically correct to say so.

  8. #8
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    If you pick out quotations from some of the other Founding Fathers, it would sound a lot different from that. The United States has an Abrahamic religious heritage, but we also have freedom of conscience and freedom of religion, so we are (supposed to be) able believe and practice as we wish. That is clearly the best system there is.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #9
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    On one side you have people saying that the US was founded as a Christian nation. On the other side you have people saying that the US was never in any way a Christian nation. Neither side is entirely accurate.

    It's true that several of our most notable founders were deists, e.g. Thomas Jefferson. However it would be ignorant to ignore the obvious influence of Christianity upon our nation's founders. For example the idea of the "separation between Church and State" was originally conceived and practiced by a Baptist minister.

    Ultimately both sides are right, and both sides are misleading.
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  10. #10
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    ...the idea of the "separation between Church and State" was originally conceived and practiced by a Baptist minister.
    My understanding is that the idea of the secular State and the separation of Church of State, arose in Western Europe after the Wars of Religion.

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