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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Is it not possible to love your fellow man whilst believing that we are all, in the end, responsible for our own actions?
    Christians believe in the Body of Christ where, if one part hurts, the whole Body hurts.

    So if you crush your hand, do you say your hand is entirely responsible for its own actions? That would be absurd.

    So in the same way Christians believe they are responsible for their sisters and brothers.

    And more important, Christians are responsible for the least amongst us.

    So it is fair to say that Benjamin Franklin subverted Christianity and unfortunately subverted a whole culture.

    But these are the fruits of Revolution.

    And by their fruits shall you know them.

  2. #82
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Don't ask that question!
    but... but.... I'm an ENTP!!!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #83
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    I can certainly agree with the goal, but some of that seems to go quite a bit too far. I can understand blatant, attention-grabbing proselytism being discouraged/banned in the public sphere, but simply wearing a veil or unobtrusive jewelry?
    1) An islamic veil is always visible.

    2) "Unobstrusive jewelries" are tolerated, as well as anything that is not meant to be noticed. The trick is usually to hide your crucifix or your magen David under your T-shirt while you're on duty, and then everything is fine.

    Can a Star Wars T-shirt be banned, as some folks proclaim that it might be in support of the "Jedi" religion? Where does it end? Don't get me wrong - I'm a die-hard strict separation of church and state sort of guy, but I wouldn't dream of moving into trying to ban such small tokens of personal expression.
    I agree.

    But someone wearing a T-shirt with a large christian cross on it would have to be immediately expelled from my lecture hall, there's nothing I can do against that. And if you have such kind of tattoo, well, you either have to hide them, or to attend a correspondence school, it's up to you.

    ---

    BTW: In France, a lot of what the US considers as "minor" religions are in fact classified as sects, and thus officially banned. Take the scientology, for instance. Scientologist proselytism is considered a crime, according to french laws.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    An islamic veil is always visible.
    The problem is that the hijab is not just a religious veil, it is also a political symbol.

    And it is a political symbol that denies the separation of Church and State, just as Islam itself denies the separation of Church and State.

    Islam is not just a religion, it is a political religion. And it has a political agenda for the world.

    And the political agenda of militant Islam is in direct opposition to liberal democracy.

    But it will not be us who defeat militant Islam. It will be moderate Islam.

    We are but bit players, supporting actors. And it is not only in our interest to support moderate Islam, but it is our duty.

  5. #85
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The problem is that the hijab is not just a religious veil, it is also a political symbol.

    And it is a political statement that denies the separation of Church and State, just as Islam itself denies the separation of Church and State.

    Islam is not just a religion, it is a political religion. And it has a political agenda for the world.

    And the political agenda of militant Islam is in direct opposition to liberal democracy.
    Alas, since I've faced that problem many times, I can only agree. :sad:
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Alas, since I've faced that problem many times, I can only agree. :sad:
    See, you are agreeable.

  7. #87
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    BTW: In France, a lot of what the US considers as "minor" religions are in fact classified as sects, and thus officially banned. Take the scientology, for instance. Scientologist proselytism is considered a crime, according to french laws.

    I am an agnostic, but I could never live in a country that treated religious belief that way. It boggles my mind.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I am an agnostic, but I could never live in a country that treated religious belief that way. It boggles my mind.
    Boggled, boggled - boggled once again.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I am an agnostic, but I could never live in a country that treated religious belief that way. It boggles my mind.
    Well, I've never said my country was perfect, but don't worry, France is not a violent dictatorship either. Feel free to visit us!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Boggled, boggled - boggled once again.
    I just can't understand a government getting that involved in something that Western tradition dictates is a fundamental freedom. I understand the mentality, but it does not make sense when you consider how much blood has spilled and how many fortunes spent in order for everyone to have freedom of conscience.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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