Why I do not believe in God

[SolitaryWalker]

Axiom: The Universe is Infinite, therefore the existence of God is impossible independent of the existence of the world.

Infinity: Continuous, incessant flow of entities.

This world is finite because not all things in this world are continuous, if they were, they all would be part of the same entity.

Therefore if God exists in the infinite world, he is all things. The God of Judeo-Christianity is personal therefore not a thing, but an individual separate from all other things.

How do we know that the universe is infinite? In order for there to have been a first cause that rendered the existence of this world possible, it must have been infinite. Suppose it was finite. God made the universe? Who made God? Another God? We could go ad infinitum following this pattern without arriving at what we can accept as the first cause.

The first cause must have been self-established, as the 'first' implies, which means has not been preceeded. Such an entity has no beginning, as the metaphysical truism 'of nothing comes from nothing' evinces. In other words it could not have simply come out of nowhere. Yet it has always existed. Mathematically, we know that an entity that has no beginning has no end also. Therefore the infinite essence must be all things. This infinite essence cannot be the Judeo-Christian God because what is infinite by definition occupies all things. Thus it cannot be seperate from the world as aforementioned and hence cannot be a creator.

This world is an unconscious representation of the infinite realm. Our minds are finite, therefore translate the infinite into what we can understand in finite terms. We all see the similar world because we, by virtue of being human operate with minds of the same design. This is the cornerstone of modern metaphysics established in the Critique of Pure Reason.

"Consequently, there is no pure knowledge outside of the world based on our senses, and no objectivity of knowledge possible without being founded on subjectivity. The way we perceive the world seems to consist simply in receiving outside information, and yet, according to Kant, it is a rather complicated relation of first giving and then taking, and consequently any epistemic relation we have to another implies a relation also to ourselves. Kant is not thereby advocating a subjectivism; he invites us to reconsider the nature of objectivity as dependent on our subjectivity. Thinghood or causality, for instance, which Hume sceptically claimed to be merely subjective constructs (subjective in the bad sense of representing something that in reality does not exist), are acknowledged by Kant as indeed subjective concepts, but subjective to a degree that all objectivity of our knowledge depends on them. They are so fundamental, so deeply rooted in our subjectivity, that without them no empirical world remains for us to know." Introduction to the Critique of Pure Reason.

Accordingly, God either exists in this world, or not at all. At this point we have found no evidence for existence of such a thing and it is altogether irreconcilable with laws of nature. The universe is a closed system of causation, as Albert Einstein famously said 'God does not play dice'. If it was not a closed system of causation, laws of nature that we take for granted would be impossible. If God existed, all things could be adjusted in accordance to his Will. The question to ask is, if the Universe as we know it is an unconscious representation of our minds, it necessarily means that it flows from the infinite realm to our finite. Creationism is therefore ruled out. Where is the place for such a God in this universe? Did he also flow out of the infinite realm as a result of an unconscious representation of our minds? In that case his existence and his activity are not a result of his omnipotent will, but a necessary entailment of the previous occurence. Thus, even if such a God existed, he would only appear omnipotent and in command of the world, when he inevitably obeys every law of nature like all things. However, existence of such a God is not possible as it is manifest to us that a seemingly omnipotent person (which is no doubt how he is portrayed in the Bible) cannot exist outside of our known world. )

It is certainly possible that there could be an alien creature who is only somewhat like a person who appears to be controlling all or some of our activities and in effect appearing omnipotent (yet inevitably obeys other laws of nature) from a planet we cannot access, this we do not have the adequate technology to investigate. Therefore we are not in the position to refute such a claim. However, such a creature is certainly not the God of the Old or New Testament.

I have argued that the existence of a Judeo-Christian God is not possible on the grounds of the impossibility of an infinite and an omnipotent creature, as well as the impossibility of a being who is the creator of the universe.

[Jack Flak]

I don't believe in God either*, but what about hyperspace/quantum mechanics? Could God not exist and take action there? *skims rest of extremely long post*

*I am an atheist, but I allow for the possibility of the supernatural. It's only logical to do so.

[Modern Nomad]

you must have the highest "average words per post" on this board!

[Jack Flak]

Originally Posted by Modern Nomad

you must have the highest "average words per post" on this board!

If BlueWing and myself have a long conversation, it will be one of the oddest things in history.

[Modern Nomad]

LMAO!

i wanna see =D

[Evan]

Agree. God (as you've defined it) is a self-contradicting concept.

[Bella]

Why I DO believe in God.

Because He's toooooooooooo wonderful.

[Bufo]

"Don't speak too soon for the wheel is still in spin.."

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Jack Flak

If BlueWing and myself have a long conversation, it will be one of the oddest things in history.

At least we won't agonize it for long, since I think the universe will collapse into a black hole when we put together the longest serious laborious poster and the shortest tongue-in-cheek sound-bite poster.

Originally Posted by BlueWing

Axiom: The Universe is Infinite, therefore the existence of God is impossible independent of the existence of the world.

Infinity: Continuous, incessant flow of entities.

This world is finite because not all things in this world are continuous, if they were, they all would be part of the same entity.

Therefore if God exists in the infinite world, he is all things. The God of Judeo-Christianity is personal therefore not a thing, but an individual separate from all other things.

Questions:
- Is God personal?
- Does the 'self' (i.e., separate entities) actually exist or is it a construct?
- Or do these answers depend on one's frame of reference / the parameters of the discourse?

Interestingly, the Judeo sense of God seemed to involve those paradoxes. JHVH was supposedly personal and separate, yet every aspect of the universe was actively being upheld (i.e., was involved with) by him, flying against a "watchmaker pov" ... he was considered to actively hold the stars in their patterns in the sky and make nature work the way it did, etc.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by BlueWing

Axiom: The Universe is Infinite, therefore the existence of God is impossible independent of the existence of the world.

I can't evaluate your position properly, Mr. Wing, because your thesis as you've expressed it is a tautology. Your axiom presupposes your conclusion.

Much depends on your definitions, and it appears at first glance that yours have been specifically structured in such a way as to preclude the existence of a deity. It's a pretty exercise in semantics thus far.

Let us not forget... we are homo adorans, the Worshiping Man. We will worship something. In presenting a mental exercise that proposes to dispense with the concept of deity, you implicitly state that the power of your intellect is sufficient to dispense with deity.

In other words, you have committed an act of self-worship.