Faith and Reason by R. C. Sproul

[sassafrassquatch]

Originally Posted by R.C. Sproul

"Without reason, the content of biblical faith would be unintelligible and meaningless. So we say that biblical faith is not the same as reason, but that faith is rational and reasonable. The first assertion that faith is rational means that faith is intelligible. It is not absurd or illogical. If biblical revelation were absurd and irrational, it would be utterly unintelligible and meaningless. The content of the Bible cannot pierce the soul of a sentient creature without first going through the mind."

Everything this guy says contradicts my deconversion experience. Faith is irrational, the bible is unintelligible, it is all absurd and illogical superstitions jury rigged to be compatible with contemporary sensibilities. I wish I could compose a calm, reasoned response to this tripe but I can't think about religion without getting angry. All I want to do is bury my fist in Sproul's skull.

Now I'm going to go tear a few more pages out of my bible and have an aneurysm.

[Owl]

Hey Sass,

I recently read one of your posts on Christianity (its on page one of the "why Jesus had to die" thread). No offense, but whoever taught you about the faith was so full of it his eyes were brown.

I'd encourage you to read Sproul as if you'd never heard of Christianity and its doctrines. You might not agree with him, but you won't find him so easy ignore.

[sassafrassquatch]

Originally Posted by Owl

Hey Sass,

I recently read one of your posts on Christianity (its on page one of the "why Jesus had to die" thread). No offense, but whoever taught you about the faith was so full of it his eyes were brown.

I'd encourage you to read Sproul as if you'd never heard of Christianity and its doctrines. You might not agree with him, but you won't find him so easy ignore.

So I had the "wrong" christianity and you have the "right" one?

R.C. Sproul on Hell

I have no respect for someone who would believe in something as disgusting as hell. Sproul's God is a petulant child throwing a tantrum.

[Owl]

Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch

So I had the "wrong" christianity and you have the "right" one?

R.C. Sproul on Hell

I have no respect for someone who would believe in something as disgusting as hell. Sproul's God is a petulant child throwing a tantrum.

What I believe is irrelevant. I needn't prove to you that the Christianity you are familiar with is garbage, because you already know it is. You've had to free yourself from the shackles of an oppressive worldview, and now you need to heal from the scars inflicted upon you by a thoughtless master. But are you going to let your anger toward your old master dictate how you think, feel, and act for the rest of your life? Having escaped from one set of chains, are you now going to be a slave to your disgust?

I would exhort you not to take your epistemological queues from your emotional states, for emotions by themselves are neither true nor false; it is the interpretation of our emotions that is either true or false, and our interpretive faculty is rational, and so we should subject our psychological state to our philosophical state, not the other way around.

[sassafrassquatch]

Whatever. You recommended that I read Sproul, what exactly do you think he has to offer me? As far as I can tell he's just another nattering fool with an imaginary friend.

[booyalab]

I find it funny how faith and intuition are practically inseparable. But if you've got the first one you deserve to be ridiculed and if you've got the second you're imaginative and iconoclastic.

[ajblaise]

Originally Posted by booyalab

I find it funny how faith and intuition are practically inseparable. But if you've got the first one you deserve to be ridiculed and if you've got the second you're imaginative and iconoclastic.

Intuition alone doesn't deserve respect, especially when attached to faith. A schizophrenic has faith that the CIA is after him, because his faulty intuition told him this. The same is true for a Christian, replacing the CIA with God.

I much rather see someone have faith in something because of reason rather than intuition. It's a bad mix.

[sassafrassquatch]

Following hunches and feelings is all well and good. Believing that magic invisible people exist and tell you things is schizophrenia.

[reason]

Originally Posted by ajblaise

Intuition alone doesn't deserve respect.

Ideas should not be evaluated by their pedigree. If an idea is true then it is very valuable, its origin is irrelevent. In other words, the ideas of others do not inherit respectability from their sources, but their usefulness or correspondence to the facts. If you become preoccupied with the search for ideas of pure-blood, then when you stumble upon the truth you might also pick yourself up and carry on as nothing ever happened.